LEARNING TO SING * DISCUSSSION

[tessie]

I have decided, after much thought, reading and discussion that I don't really like this book very much.  This is my opinion and although everyone on the site will probably disagree, I am entitled to it.

I think the book portrays Clay as a victim and because I think that, I don't like it very much.  Let me explain.

I was hoping for a book where I could get to know Clay more through the eyes of people who have known him.  I am interested in how teachers remembered him.  I'd like to know about his friends.  I'd like some input from his mother and his grandma and grandpa and Brett.  I'd like to know about the plays he was in, and the group he sang with, and his experiences in the church choir.  I would like to know what it had been like to be his roomate and watch this guy you had known become the delight of the females of Amerida, and how he felt as the AI changes in his life were occuring.  I would like to know funny things about living in the AI house and experiencing new found fame.

I do not believe Clay is or was a victim.  I believe he is a child from a broken home and a birth father who could never manage to get his own life together and had nothing to give to Clay.  I believe he has a strong mother who loves him.  I do not have the bad opinion of her that many others share.  She was a young woman who found herself in an abusive marriage and left it for the sake of her son.  She believed in her son's talent and encouraged and nurtured it.  That she made him write lines, sat in his classroom and let his car be sold, to me means that she set limits and followed through on what she said she would do.  That she likes being Clay Aiken's mother now that he is famous does not mean that she has not liked being Clay Aiken's mother from the day he was born or that she would not like being Clay Aiken's mother even if he had not found fame.

Did Ray Parker abuse Clay?  I don't know.  I do know that Clay repeatedly speaks of him as his father.  I know nothing else.

Too many things in this book come from things remembered only by Clay.  He wasn't allowed to go on a car trip because he had to clean the freezer.  Had he been told to clean the freezer before he could go out again?  I have no way of knowing.  Did his stepfather have different ideas about what clean rooms meant and mess up things that were not really cleaned up?  I have no way of knowing.  I only know that when my son thinks his room is clean that his father and I rarely agree with him.  Did getting the same present two years in a row mean that he didn't get other presents?  Did it mean that for 26 years there were no other presents in his life?

Did an already insecure kid have to wear funny clothes?  Probably, because the things that poorer people can afford from the shops where they buy are not high quality name brands.  Was he clean and warm and dry?  He says his feet were.

Was Simon as mean to him as we thought, or is it a TV show and a crabby, unpleasant judge brings viewers and ratings?  Was Simon preparing him for a business that can be cold and unfeeling?  Would AI be the show it is if only Paula were the judge?  The interaction between Clay and Simon is still being discussed.  Good TV?

I don't like the book.  I find it dreary and depressing.  It lacks joy and I doubt that joy was totally absent from Clay's life.  It has lead too many people, IN MY OPINION, to jump to conclusions that may not be true.

Sorry to all that will disagree with this entire post, I just don't care for the book very much.

[Sundancer]

Sorry to all that will disagree with this entire post, I just don't care for the book very much.

tessie,
So, will you be using it for a coaster now?

[GWENN]

CAROL--I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINTS, BUT THE BOOK YOU WANT TO READ HAS NOT BEEN WRITTEN YET.  YOU CANNOT WRITE THAT TYPE OF BOOK YOURSELF.  IT HAS TO BE DONE THROUGH RESEARCH AND HAVING OTHER PEOPLE TELL THEIR STORIES.  THAT WILL COME.  I AM QUITE CONFIDENT OF THAT.  THERE WILL BE LOTS OF BOOKS ABOUT CLAY.  THIS ONE WAS NOT MEANT TO BE THAT KIND OF BOOK.  HE WANTED  PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU CAN OVERCOME BAD THINGS AND BE A GOOD AND HAPPY PERSON.  WE ALL HAVE ISSUES.  ONE OF THE GREATEST GIFTS YOU CAN GIVE SOMEONE IS FOR THAT PERSON TO FEEL THAT HE/SHE IS NOT ALONE.  WITNESS SUPPORT GROUPS.  I THINK CLAY DID A WONDERFUL JOB OF THAT.  MYSELF, I WONDER WHY THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT COLLEGE AND HIS EXPERIENCES THERE.  WAS THERE NOTHING HE LEARNED ABOUT LIFE THERE?

IMHO

GWENN

[Sundancer]

MYSELF, I WONDER WHY THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT COLLEGE AND HIS EXPERIENCES THERE. WAS THERE NOTHING HE LEARNED ABOUT LIFE THERE?

I've wondered about that, too, Gwenn.

One of the first things I found out in college is that you learn more about life than you do about whatever subjects you're studying. Maybe he's not ready to share those lessons yet?

[Marilyn]

Quote:
MYSELF, I WONDER WHY THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT COLLEGE AND HIS EXPERIENCES THERE. WAS THERE NOTHING HE LEARNED ABOUT LIFE THERE?  

I've wondered about that, too, Gwenn.

One of the first things I found out in college is that you learn more about life than you do about whatever subjects you're studying. Maybe he's not ready to share those lessons yet?
_________________

SUNNY AND GWENN- PERHAPS ALL THAT AND MORE WILL BE IN "LEARNING TO SING- THE SEQUEL-HARMONIZING WITH YOUR PEERS"

WHY NOT- IF HE CAN WRITE ONE BOOK- HE CAN WRITE MORE- I MEAN, GEEZ, THE GUY HAS NOTHING TO DO NEXT YEAR EXCEPT THE UNICEF THING,  THE ROSE BOWL PARADE, AND A LOOOOOOOOOONNG NAP.

[GWENN]

YOU'RE RIGHT, MARILYN.  I VOLUNTEER TO TAKE THAT NAP WITH HIM.  OOPS--WRONG THREAD.

GWENN

[cjrmax]

Carol, I wasn't that impressed by the book either, but not really for the reasons you stated.  I found it uninspiring and not all that interesting.  It was a 25 year old guy telling us about his rather unremarkable life.  As I said pages ago, what I came away thinking after reading it is that all in all Clay is just an ordinary guy who led an ordinary life who just happens to have an extraordinary voice.  His childhood wasn't all that bad.  Certainly not Normal Rockwell, but how many of us have Normal Rockwell lives?  He survived.  Well guess what, so do most who grow up the way he did.  Most turn out just fine.  He wasn't all that poor.  He was middle to maybe lower middle class.  Most of his life he lived in a house with a yard and his own room.  He didn't have that many hardships, and very few, if any, that millions of other kids don't have.  As I said pages ago, the only reason some are all inspired by how he "overcame" such a "terrible" life to become so wonderful is that he is now famous.  Think of the millions of kids that had his kind of childhood, or worse, who grow up to be happy and productive human beings.  We will never hear about them.  Sure some grow up to be delinquents or abusers or axe murderes or whatever, but so do kids who grow up in wonderful happy homes!

I guess I didn't like it because I felt it wasn't particularly well constructed, he contradicted himself in a number of places and frankly, his story wasn't all that fascinating.

I think the problem here is how much dissection this book has undergone (and I am sure on every Clay fan site on the internet as well!).  This is a little book.  Its not deep.  Its not heavy. Its not rocket science.  Why must we analyze it ad nauseam? Why can't we just read it, enjoy it or not, and move on?  Is it really worthy of such deep anaylzations?  I guess it is if everyone enjoys doing it, but personally I wonder what else could possibly be gleened from those 200 plus pages? A friend once wrote in my yearbook "Emotions are not meant for dissection, they are made to feel".  Maybe Clay's book is not meant for dissection, but is made to be read.  Period.

I read it.  And now it sits on my bookshelf with lots of other books I once read (I don't use it as a coaster because I can't but a glass on that cute studface!).  I have no desire to reread it, or to listen to Clay read it on an audio tape. I learned a little but nothing I couldn't have lived without. Am I glad I read it?  I guess because otherwise I would be curious beyond words!  Did I get something out of it? Not really except I believe now that Clay didn't succeed despite his hardships and learn to be happy.  He didn't have it that bad.  So he's happy now.  He should be!  I don't know why we should all be so inspired and impressed by it.

Look, Clay seems to be a great guy who has his act together way more  than most 26 year old guys. And, like most 26 year old guys, his life is not - in my opinion - interesting enough to warrant a book.  On the other hand, I am tickled pink its still in the top 10 of the NY Times Bestseller list!  

[tessie]

MYSELF, I WONDER WHY THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT COLLEGE AND HIS EXPERIENCES THERE.  WAS THERE NOTHING HE LEARNED ABOUT LIFE THERE?

I hope that when and if Clay decides to write about this or about anything else, he chooses someone different to help him do it.

[Sundancer]

I wasn't that impressed by the book either... It was a 25 year old guy telling us about his rather unremarkable life.... Clay is just an ordinary guy who led an ordinary life who just happens to have an extraordinary voice.... He wasn't all that poor.... the only reason some are all inspired by how he "overcame" such a "terrible" life to become so wonderful is that he is now famous....

I guess I didn't like it because I felt it wasn't particularly well constructed, he contradicted himself in a number of places and frankly, his story wasn't all that fascinating.

I have no desire to reread it, or to listen to Clay read it on an audio tape....He didn't have it that bad. So he's happy now. He should be! I don't know why we should all be so inspired and impressed by it.

Christie,
What is it you like about him, again?

[cjrmax]

Christie,
What is it you like about him, again?

Well, there is his voice and his eyes and eyelashes and his soft, pouty lips, and his hands and his laugh and his snarky sense of humor and.....  Well, just take my word for it.  There is more.  

I didn't say I didn't like him.  I just didn't like his book that much.  

I wasn't aware it was a "Love Clay, love his book" deal!

[Claysupporter]

Edited out comment. -P

I just wished these people who did not like the book are not encouraging others not to buy it because we want Clay to do good in sales so he would be given another opportunity to write another book and we also would like Clay to be around for a long time.

[Claysupporter]

I just realized my husbands life was just like Clay's when he was living with his stepfather.

My husband's father also physically abused his mother, he later died then after a few years she remarried and had a son with him. His stepfather was not nice to him at all and his mother did not do anything about it either although he did not physically abuse my husband, he only did it emotionally.

His mother treated his half brother more like a son. My husband was treated like a relative instead of a son.

My husband still loves his mom. He's a very nice, caring, loving person.

[Pamela]

I just wished these people who did not like the book are not encouraging others not to buy it because we want Clay to do good in sales so he would be given another opportunity to write another book and we also would like Clay to be around for a long time.

This thread is for discussion of the book, whether it be positive or negative.  No one is saying "don't buy the book!"  I think everyone can and will make up their own minds as to whether or not to buy the book and whether or not they like it.  

I appreciated your comments about your husband very much. He sounds like a really strong person with a very big heart.  

PS-I just updated the book sales in the thread called "Clay's Good News" and he's doing very well!

[LuvMyClay]

I don't think by this discussion, it will cause anyone who may have wanted to buy the book, not to.  I am glad I read the book, but I agree  there wasn't that much to it.  I knew most, not all, of what was written in the book before reading it.  It wasn't fascinating, it was very simply written, and as I said,  to me, not all that informative.  

Am I sorry I bought the book?  No!   I also have the audio version which I have not yet listened to, but am looking forward to hearing Clay's voice reading the book to me.  

And now, thanks to Angela, I have an autographed copy, which I am so very GREATFUL to have.

No, I am not sorry I read the book, and would encourage others to do so as well.  The book is what it is, a little piece of Clay's history.

[CAdidyouknow?]

I loved the book.  I can understand some of the criticisms already stated: not revealing or complete enough, not a compelling enough story, not well-constructed, etc., but the overall effect of the book on me overcame any similar criticism I may have had.  

My overall reaction to the book:  1) amazed and grateful that Clay, with all that he's doing, has had the self-discipline and/or the inclination to share some of his early life and philosophy of life with the public, especially us!   With all he's been doing since '03, I can't imagine getting that together, even if a professional writer were helping me.   2) It's Clay's very "ordinariness", directness, and honesty that moves me the most!   He life may not seem "that bad" to some people, but I don't think Clay is the type to look at his life that way, so he doesn't present himself that way.  If he were the true "victim" type, he could have had us in tears during some of that stuff with his 2 dads.   As a mother of a son, it broke my heart.   I think the book is in Clay's voice, and that in itself is revealing to me.   He never feels sorry for himself.  He moves on.  The book is for us, not for him.  

I love him dearly for it.   Inside Clay is "the teacher".   That's the Clay who wrote the book.   It's not meant as literature.

[tessie]

I just wished these people who did not like the book are not encouraging others not to buy it because we want Clay to do good in sales so he would be given another opportunity to write another book and we also would like Clay to be around for a long time.

Claysupporter....

I join you in your feelings of wanting Clay to be around for a long time.  I count myself in the very dedicated fan category.

I would never discourage anyone from buying Clay's book.  I am well aware that different people like different things and for different reasons.  

This was just a discussion.  It was just not the type of book I was hoping for.  Maybe his next one will be what I was hoping this one would be.  I will buy it nevertheless and add it to my growing Clay collection.

[stilldreaming]

I think the book is in Clay's voice, and that in itself is revealing to me.   He never feels sorry for himself.  He moves on.  The book is for us, not for him.  

I love him dearly for it.   Inside Clay is "the teacher".   That's the Clay who wrote the book.   It's not meant as literature.

I've been kind of quiet on the book until now, because after reading it a few times (and listening to the audio version) my perceptions of it have continued to change.

I quoted CAdidyouknow? because this is pretty much the way I (finally) ended up feeling.  This book was simply Clay's gift to us & I also love him for it.

Never once, did I hear real self-pity in his voice.  (Including his audio interpretation.)  He states his childhood difficulties, some of his family heartaches, personal disappointments, etc. & then moves on.  We only get brief overviews of events, but nothing DEEP that really digs beneath the surface of what Clay was truly feeling or what was really going on within his family at the time.

I'll use the "date" he had with the prom queen girl as an example.  Clay says he sassed his mother, so she said he wasn't going to the dance & he snuck out anyway.  Was his mom's reaction unfair?  Who the heck knows!!  Does Clay tell us How Bad or how cutting his remarks may have been to her?  Or what lead to those remarks being made?  NO.  So we have this brief overview & nothing more to form a real, true opinion on.  And much of the book is just like that.  Simple overviews, with an ultimate lesson that Clay "learned" from different things which happened in his life.

It's not heavy literature or a probing tell-all.  It's only a gift.  Not perfect in the telling, but still much more than we had before.  And I respect everyone's opinions.

I loved this book for what it is and not what it isn't.  I also realise I am very spoiled.  There's a millions details of Clay's life I wish I knew more about.  

Perhaps one day, Clay will give us another gift?  I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

And yes, I love him & am more than willing to wait....

[CAdidyouknow?]

Very well said, Stilldreaming.   Maybe that deeply probing book is for someone else to write.

[clayfan1130]

im clayfan1130 and when i read his book i was so inspired to sing again it is just so full of incouragement and it just gives you this great feeling like if he can do it i can too i am trying out for a spring musical in my school and i just needed to say if you think for one moment that you can not do something think again because you can do anything if you put your mind to it

[lovinclay]

CLAYFAN1130.....GOOD FOR YOU!  GO FOR IT!!  

OH, AND WELCOME.....I SEE THIS IS YOUR FIRST POST.