ClayManiacs

Welcome to CM Discussion number 27.  This is the official Clay discussion thread at Claymaniacs.com. 

To that end, please include Clay content in your posts. News, articles, links to pictures, thoughts, opinions or anything that encourages conversation is welcome.  Personal conversation should take place in our community threads. 

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An opinion that differs from your own is not a personal attack on you.  A negative opinion is not a personal attack on Clay.

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All previous threads will be archived in the "Archives - Critical Mass" forum.

Thanks and have fun!

YAY! Im the first to post! :roflmao
I SUPPORT CLAY NO MATTER WHAT! :lmao
umm...and Im still officially CLAZY!!
 :bduh :bduh
-viki

p.s. cant wait to read all the new posts tomorrow! GOOD NITE :purpbana

Marilyn: You looked fine on national television!

Johanna/clayharmony: I was thinking of Kimmel and valentine's also. I really really really want them to keep that going!!! And Kimmel has always had my support even if I never stay up to watch him. He has been a positive support of Clay from day 1.

Shelley

I love the smell of a new thread . . . . like the smell of a new car.  :bigsmile

I agree also, JOHANNA and SHELLEY.   Jimmy Kimmel has been so supportive of Clay (once he got to know him).  Jimmy seems street smart and he really does validate Clay and I love their interactions.  :clap

I'm looking forward to the GMA interview.  Hope it is fair. Evidently, it is something that Clay wanted. 

MARILYN - I have not seen the E! interview, BUT I do know that you are a true fan!  You have been so supportive of Clay. 

A new friend for Clay????   He claims to have helped him  come  out...

Magazine article.....


http://www.okmagazine.com/news/view/9240

HE'S PRETTY CUTE, MARION.  INTERESTING.  WONDER WHY HE WENT TO OK.

GWENN

I wonder how many others are going to come forward to say they helped or talked to Clay about his decision.

"Hey look everybody! It's the Bandwagon! It's rolling along pretty good, let's jump on board!"

On My Way Here is #284 on Amazon!

AND  #1 in Movers and Shakers!!!
  Sales Rank in Music: 284 (was 2,514)
 
 On My Way Here
~ Clay Aiken


 :purpbana :purpbana :purpbana

You go, Clay Honey!!!

I totally agree- they will come out of the woodwork now.

Folks from the CV and CB are wanting to send cards of encouragement to Clay.
If you want to participates here is the address

Shubert Theater
225 W 44th St
New York, NY 10036


Oh, and you might want to address them to Clay Aiken..... :lol

CAN ONE OF YOUR WONDERFULLY TALENTED LADIES MAKE A CLAY AND PARKER BANNER?  I LOVE LOOKING AT HIM WITH HIS SON. 

AND I AM TECH CHALLENGED. :blush

GWENN

MARILYN! That was my idea! We Clay birds move fast!  The SD recap thread was dead as a door nail and we were bored so I told everyone I sent Clay a card. Whooot! Let's all do it!

Mee too. I have no idea but please make one with Jaymes in it - she is the lady who actually gave birth. :lmao

Well if it's true, Clay has good taste!

MARILYN - Or should be call you TV star-Marilyn? Would it be ok to post this in ANN news tomorrow as I know many people read that thread? Thank you!

I just saw you, Marilyn. Very cool! :bouncy

E! (http://www.eonline.com/videos/index.jsp)

And I saw Lance Bass. One of my other loves. I have a thing for southern blondes I guess.  :lol

Request has been noted.  :thumb  We'll see what we can do.  :bigsmile

sURE- GO AHEAD!!!

Marilyn -- I look forward to the video!!!  can't do it yet.

A suggestion re a name for this section of thread:

Clay on his way

WORD! Anyone wanting their 15 minutes of fame will jump on this one.

 :lmao  So true, MICHELLE!  Maybe even nonameblogger or Harvy Levin will step forward to claim credit!
After all, they've been there for Clay every step of the way, right?  :para


I like that, MAINER!   :clap

Off to do some yard work, then just household stuff!  Wheeeee!!!  :wheee

I'm also going to attempt to walk with my buckling knee.  I'll be starting Physical Therapy on Tuesday, but in the meantime I am going to try to walk a little bit more each day.  

Have a beautiful day, ladies!!!!

Just saw GMA interview - we west coasters are the last to see everything!!

Oh it's so good to see goofy, silly, funny, happy Clay. Diane wanted him to be brooding and tormented! :lol

That's our Clay! And I loved him singing to Parker and also talking about not wanting too much specifically for your children because you'll be disappointed. Also that he was concerned that his grandmother's friends would treat her badly when they found out. That's Clay - worried about other people.

Can't wait to see more with Jaymes tomorrow. THAT's the part of the interview I really want to see.

Off to work and smiling. Clay is still Clay!
Shelley

 :wave  Good Morning! I am off and running again, so I just brought my OCD post over. For those of you who do not know, Woody (Woodstock) is having gall baldder surgery today:

Thread title - I vote for:

"there.  you got your answer"  now let's move on.

Thanks for bringing this over, FRANKIE.  Thoughts and prayers a successful surgery and quick recovery for our WOODSTOCK DEBBIE!


As to Diane Sawyer's referral to Clay's fans as middle-aged, I'm flattered to be counted among those who are "middle-aged"!!!  :lol  These days I'm feeling quite ooollllldddddddd!   (J/K)


EDIT:
Now seriously, I wish all future interviewers of Clay Aiken would be advised ahead of time that Clay's fanbase extends far beyond "middle-aged" ladies.  Maybe this could even be written into the contract for the interview?  I believe that all age groups are represented quite well here on Claymaniacs. 

IT FELT SO GOOD TO HEAR THAT LAUGH AGAIN.  AND LET'S TALK ABOUT HOW HAPPY HE IS.  HE IS GENUINELY HAPPY.  I AM BEYOND HAPPY FOR HIM AS WELL.

I HOPE THOSE OF YOU STILL UPSET ABOUT THE "LYING " THING NOW UNDERSTAND THAT HE WAS PROTECTING HIS MOM AND GRANDMOM.  I ADMIRE HIM FOR THAT.

JUST LOSE THE GLASSES.  I WANT TO SEE HIS WHOLE FACE.  JUST FOR A LITTLE WHILE.

AND LISTENING TO HIM SING TO PARKER AND WATCHING THE BABY.  OMG.  IT IS JUST THE  MOST BEAUTIFUL THING IN THE WORLD.  A MAN AND HIS CHILD.  SEXY TO ME.  I DON'T CARE IF HE IS GAY.  HE IS STILL SO HOT.

GWENN

CHECK OUT THIS INTERVIEW WITH JAYMES.  I REALLY LIKE HER.  WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20228644,00.html

GWENN

I feel so spoiled with the availability of clack. I went to bed late last night but still set my alarm for 7 am fully intending on getting up to watch GMA. Well, 6:54 came around and I thought "you know, I need sleep more than I need to see GMA, besides there will be clack and I can catch it later". I turned the alarm off, rolled over, and slept :lol

I just got the clack from clackunlimited.com and watched it. I think it went very well. It was good to see Clay so relaxed and happy. I'm glad Diane didn't browbeat Clay about anything and just let him talk and say things the way he wanted.

Scroll if you wish..

I am too excited not to share..

Val (my friend's son) was discussed on the red carpet at the emmy's..

Watch UGLY BETTY tonight..


http://www.ew.com/ew/package/0,,20045108_20223651,00.html?bcpid=1767981825&bclid=1764764835&bctid=1809604465

Clay content...

This would be a great show for Clay to do....It is now being shot in NYC...

Yeah, he looks like a bandwagon-jumper.

I turned on my TV just when the interview started.  I was surprised because I didn't think it would be on until the second hour!!  I thought it went well.  He seemed confident even though there was some nervous laughter a few times.  I was reading on another board and someone thought he was being glib when he mentioned being a gay man at the very beginning of the interview.  I don't think he was being glib, I just think he didn't want to come across as apologetic or ashamed of who he is.  I hope everyone can truly understand that he wasn't trying to be deceitful by not telling his fans before this.  He obviously was taking his family into consideration, and was probably dealing with a lot of emotional stuff on his own.  I'm so glad that most of us are still here and being supportive of OMC.  He's the same man this week as he was last week, and we've always been proud of the man he is.  Well, back to getting caught up on my housework.  For this I took a day off of work!   :bduh

Debbie

I think people often understand what they want to understand, and refuse to understand what they don't want to.

But, even beyond understanding is acceptance. Whether or not you can understand why someone does something, you can choose to accept it. Or not. And some of Clay's fans will have to make that choice, and they might come down on the side of "not."

I think the loss will be theirs. :shrug

This is probably old news to everyone else (I miss a lot!) but I just watched the E! News from last night - I had recorded it. And who was interviewed outside of the Schubert Theatre? MARILYN!!!!  I know somebody famous!  :lol :clap

And I thought Clay handled Diane very well this morning - better than any of their previous interviews. She may consider herself a friend, but she is a reporter first - you have to watch her!

:giggle Can I second this?

Really like that interview with Jaymes! Thanks, Gwenn.

YES THAT'S A GREAT THREAD TITLE!!

Gwenn! I knew you'd come around regarding Jaymes  :wink
We get more of her tomorrow on GMA too.....Can you imagine being in her shoes???
Shelley

Jaymes has been posting responses to fans on the OFC. Just quoting and making short answers BUT- very insightful for just a few words. I admire her more each day.

Have to run!!

And I was edited- ask Gwenn (thank goodness for some things I said not coming through) But for some reason they didnt post what I said about tabloids!!  :lol

And for some reason they did not interview Gwenn- but they sure got to hear her opinion  :lmao :lmao

I LOVE YOU GWENN!!! :hugg

Well said.  I really believe the old adage that you can't really judge someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes.  I have two gay cousins (one of each gender) and from the time they were young adults or even in their teens I thought they might be gay before I found out for sure.  One even got married to look "acceptable" and that ended in divorce after his wife found out he had been chatting on some gay sites.  I don't feel it was their choice to be gay; for whatever reasons, they just were.  Clay waited until now to let the world know, and he said he made his decision after Parker was born.  I'm still a fan, and I still hope to see him in Spamalot this time around!!  Back to my cleaning .... again.  I keep stopping back here!!

Debbie

NO NO NO NO NO!  We still don't know his favorite color!   :rofl

   :lol  :clap

 :doh   :lmao  How could we leave out such an important detail?  And BTW, welcome to the Critical Mass, mccraig!   :hugg

OK, so we have two excellent suggestions for the new title:

MAINER: "Clay on his way" 
                           OR
LORILOVESGOLF:  "There, you got your answer"!

Here is my contribution:  "Taking Our Fandom to the Next Level"   :para

OKAY, back to yard work.   :fall

I really liked that interview with Jaymes.  I may just start to feel differently about her.  But, whatever my feelings, she obviously loves Clay very deeply, as he her.  I can appreciate that, and I'm glad they have each other to lean on.  (Of course, he could have leaned on me.....I have much bigger shoulders). 

I enjoyed the GMA interview for the most part.  I'm looking forward to part 2 tomorrow.  I loved the People Magazine article, and can't wait to pick up a copy this weekend. 

Marilyn, on what thread at the OFC is Jaymes posting?

Claydevotee -- Actually, I like yours too!  Maybe more.  (I thought that "Clay on his way" was sort of a double entendre -- as in Clay speaks out/on his way or path;  and as in Clay continues on his way -- both referencing "On My Way Here" -- as in "the journey continues", another possible thread title, I suppose!  I'm not as wild about "there, you got your answer,"  JMO, but I do really like "Taking our fandom to the next level."

My World History teacher mentioned Clay in class today...
His exact words, "No suprise, but I support his philosophy. He wants to be honest to his son." :shappy
That is soo cool...Oh, and the interview with Jaymes was wonderful. She and Clay have a great bond!
I missed some of GMA...oh well! (bet its already on clackunlimited)

-viki

Thanks, mainer!   :hugg

Hey! :wave
Tomorrow Oprah will talk about "Entertainment News" and will have "exclusive interviews."
Do you think shell mention Clay!!??
-viki :purpbana

Does anybody know what Jaymes was saying on the OFC?  I tried to find it but I couldn't.  There are so many posts there!!!!!!!!  I would love to know what she had to say.  I don't know about you, but I'm a bit envious of her.  She's as close to Clay as any woman can be.  They share a child together, and mostly live together.  I know some gay men, and just because they're gay doesn't mean they can't have a close personal relationship with a woman or have a special friendship with one.  They can still like women in a non-physical way.  I really do believe that Clay enjoys horsing around with Quianna and I can't believe I just forgot  the other woman's name who sings with him  :bduh, and I believe his affection for all of us crazy female fans is real.   Oh well, I have to go and finish my work around here.  Sure is a fun day off of work.  Bye for now.

Debbie

Clayheart: the other girl is Angela!
-viki :lol

I just read a nice blog by a non-fan


http://www.southernvoice.com/blog/index.cfm?blog_id=21256
There's also a video posted there

Here's a great video from CNN/Showbiz Tonight:

Showbiz Tonight (http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=9892383&ch=4226715&src=news)

Likewise, Jaymes has a great post (#3781) in the People Magazine thread at the OFC. I'd venture to say she's waited a long time to say some of those things ...

OTHER THAN PLAYING MAH JONGG, I HAVE SPENT THE AFTERNOON ON THE OFC.  I WISH ANYONE WHO IS A MEMBER WOULD UNDERSTAND HOW INCREDIBLE IT IS THAT JAYMES SPENT SO MUCH TIME WITH US AND RESPONDED FROM THE HEART TO MANY VERY WONDERFUL COMMENTS AND SOME NASTY ONES.  I HAVE SO MUCH RESPECT FOR HER.  SHE TRULY LOVES CLAY IN A STRONG, STRONG WAY.  CHECK IT OUT.  MOST FANS WERE VERY SUPPORTIVE AND UNDERSTANDING.  SOME ARE STILL DEALING WITH THE LYING CRAP.  BUT KNOW THIS----THIS INCREDIBLE MAN HAS SAID THAT HE WANTS PEOPLE TO SPEAK THEIR MINDS.  SHARE ALL KINDS OF FEELINGS. THERE WILL BE NO EDITING ON THE OFC FOR 2 WEEKS.  LORD, I THINK HE IS CRAZY.  THERE ARE PAPS WHO HAVE MEMBERSHIPS THERE.  AND I BET THAT JAYMES MAJOR POST WILL SHOW UP SOMEWHERE.  IT IS AN INCREDIBLE POST.  SHE IS A STRONG LADY. 

CLAY IS SUCH AN INCREDIBLE MAN.  TITANIUM FOR SURE.  WOW.

GWENN

LINDSAY, I was just over lurking at the OFC.  Jaymes did write a wonderful post.  But I was more amused by the McV response.  I'm convinced Ms McV  is "quite delusional".   :para  :lol  :hypno :dust

Gwenn, what exactly turned you 180 degrees around on Jaymes so hard and fast?

I AM NOT QUITE SURE.  I STILL DON'T KNOW WHY SHE COULDN'T FIND THAT HIT SONG.  BUT I DO SEE THAT SHE AND CLAY REALLY DO LOVE EACH OTHER VERY DEEPLY.  FROM WHAT I HAVE READ, SHE IS VERY SINCERE ABOUT HER FEELINGS.  I KNOW MORE ABOUT HER THAN I DID.  SHE REALLY WANTED TO BE A MOM AND DIDN'T JUST DO THIS TO "SNAG" CLAY.  IT TAKES A PRETTY SECURE AND STRONG WOMAN TO CHOOSE TO HAVE A CHILD WITH A GAY MAN.  AND TO COMMIT TO RAISING THE CHILD TOGETHER.  I AM HOPING TO LEARN A LOT MORE ABOUT HER TOMORROW ON GMA.  I AM SEEING A VERY DIFFERENT PICTURE.  I CAN ADMIT WHEN I AM WRONG.  I THINK I WAS WRONG ON THIS ONE.  I WAS SO BUSY BEING ANGRY AT MORE CRAP.  I DID WHAT I HATE THE MOST.  I JUDGED HER WITHOUT ALL THE FACTS.  I PRIDE MYSELF ON NOT BEING JUDGMENTAL.  I SCREWED UP BIG TIME ON THIS.

GWENN

Wow. Okay. Thanks for answering my question. :hugg

OMG OMG!
I THINK swampthing IS BEING INTERVIEWD BY E!NEWS!!
He said: "Clay used me!"

-viki

Yeah, he's such a poor, misunderstood victim. :lol

Look, if you're gonna interview a crazy person, you're gonna get a crazy interview. :hypno

Im NOT watching it! What an....no words can describe it!

-viki
btw: always enjoy your imput SUNNY!:)

Gwenn    :clap     :clap      :clap      :clap

I think most of us judged Jaymes in one way or another and I am really looking forward to tomorrow's GMA to hear more from and about her. 

She has got to be a very remarkable woman and I'm so glad that Clay has her at this time in his life.  I've got to go over to the OFC and read what she had to say.

I thought Clay looked very good on GMA this morning.  He was relaxed and happy and I thought his answers were very honest and showed how much thought he had put into how this would affect many people -- not just himself.  I am sure he feels a real weight has been taken off him and now he can concentrate on the rest of his life and his wonderful family.

If any of you have not watched the Showbiz Tonight clip -- by all means to so.  I have watched this show from time to time and they are not always complimentary to the celebrities they are talking about.  THIS IS A VERY GOOD CLIP -- DON'T MISS IT.

Going over to the OFC right now to read Jaymes' posts.  Be back later.

 :wow :wow :wow
Jaymes Foster is awesome!!!
I spent FOUR hours today trying to read one OFC thread and started to mark down where she was posting but she posted so many comments I gave up counting, At first she would just post a clap or thumbs up under someone's post, then she posted, and a quote: ding ding ding. Too cute. Finally someone was a jerk and lambasted her and Clay for using Parker to promote an agenda, and she got pissed. Way to go Jaymes!! She refused to apologize. You tell em girlfriend.

Meanwhile we learned thru a post that Clay doesn't want ANY EDITING for two weeks and people were letting it fly - 99% positive.

Fianlly as Gwenn said above she posted a very long post, and ended with The Best Is Yet to Come.

Whew. I had no time to look at any other boards today.  It was actually wonderful to be able to thank her for her strength and people were thanking her for standing up on her own two feet. This is no wuss!!

People were even saying "where's the Jaymes Foster" fan club!

Amazing!  Oh my favorite post from her!! I almost forgot!! Someone was writing that they were still waiting for another shoe to drop and she wrote: Dear, there is no other shoe, he is basically naked now.

 :lmao

Shelley

I agree. Jaymes is a remarkable woman and isn't afriad to tell it like it is. :clap Clay is lucky to have her in his life.

BARBARA -  Jaymes's post is worth the trip over to the OFC. Tell us what you think!

I just got back from the OFC and I read Jaymes' post.  Clay has met his match! :smile  She brought up some very valid points regarding why some fans feel that Clay was not honest with them.  She was very open and it is evident how much Clay means to her. She also mentions how  Clay is concerned about the feelings of his fans.

GWENN - I almost have vertigo from the turnaround that I also have had regarding Jaymes. Your honesty about being judgmental regarding Jaymes, the pregnancy, etc., hit home with me.  I guess we based our judgment on the lack of many facts and our hope that Clay was making his own decisions.  BTW - I read your post at OFC.  Very meaningful ! :hugg

                                   HOLY COW AM I GLAD THIS WEEK IS ALMOST OVER,WHAT A ROLLACOASTER RIDE.

                                   SPENT A GOOD PART OF MY DAY AT OFC. WOW .

Personally I'm just not into all of this devotion to Jaymes, et al.  She's a bright articulate woman who is obviously very loyal and loving towards Clay.  That is admirable.

I will continue to be a devoted fan of Clay Aiken the entertainer with the celestial voice and the charismatic onstage persona.  But I think I'm going to leave all of the concern about his personal life behind.  I wish I could feel as excited and enthused as some of you, but I'm afraid I can't!   

I love Clay Aiken.  And I look forward to seeing him perform both on stage and in the world arena of humanitarian causes.  And I pray that he will have a wonderful relationship with Parker.   A good father/son relationship is crucial over a lifetime.

EDITED:
I wish him inner peace and a desire to make the most of every day.  I truly believe each of us has a mission and purpose here on earth.  I think he is just now realizing what that is.  It will be interesting to see all of this unfold.

And I know I will still be looking on eBay for good seats to future concerts in years to come!!!

Thea, not that anybody really cares what I think but thank you for that.  I love Clay and who he is and what he stands for.  I will let him have his personal life, it is not mine to know anything about.  I will listen to his music, watch him perform any chance I get.  I do believe some of those people at the OFC are just a little too involved in his life and probably need to get a life of their own.   My God you would think they were all his wives or something and he cheated on them.   Nothing has changed for me,  Clay being gay is just a very small part of who and what he is.   There is so much more to the man, so much more.

LORI, I care.   :hugg  And thank you so much for your comments.  It's always good to know we're not completely alone in our beliefs. 

EDITED:
And I agree that "there is so much more to the man, so much more".  And we aren't entitled to know all of that, IMHO.

I just wanted to quote this because I think this is why some of us are having trouble.  We were never entitled to know all of that, but somehow, we made it our entitlement, and that's why some of us are unhappy. 

Bingo!!!!!

She always has been very open about that.

 :lmao :lmao :lmao

Barb - I read Jaymes post and that, coupled with the interview she did for People, confirmed what I thought all along.   This may be a relationship based on a deep friendship but Jaymes does love Clay and I'm sure he loves her.  Today she let it be known that she is not just Clay's EP but she and Parker are his family and she will defend them both.   I, for one, am glad Clay has her to support him and help him through this.

I can't wait to see "the best is yet to come".   And, I don't think that was just a closing statement--I think she knows what it is going to be. 

There appeared to be several other posts but that thread is sooooooo long that I couldn't find half of them.

This has been a very emotional week in the Claynation but I think that "faith has conquered fear" and Clay is going to take back his life and career.

wait a minute -- this is the guy who has been using Clay's celebrity to get money and attention for himself, the guy whose been a Clay parasite for years now -- this is the guy who's been stalking Clay's fame to shamelessly promote himself, and he says "Clay used ME!"  What I DON'T get is E's decision to give a stalker the air time of day.   

BARBARA - I didn't look for the other posts . . . but Jaymes did put herself on the line by posting on a site that has sometimes been hostile.  I liked her attitude.  The whole situation is "unusual", but interesting.

I also look forward to the GMA interview tomorrow.  I have an early morning meeting, so I'll be cranking up the VCR tape.

It certainly has been quite a week.  Never boring!  :wink  

After the past couple of months, we could probably use a little boring around here! :lol

MAINER, unfortunately we are probably overestimating the average viewing audience.  I think there is a core group out there who love watching nonameblogger on these entertainment shows.

                               I HAVE A HEADACHE. :lol

I SO KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.  I DON'T THINK I CAN EVER, EVER LOOK AT RYAN A** AGAIN.   :bang :bang :bang :bang

YEAH.  BORING IS GOOD.

GWENN

Don't worry about it, GWENN.  I think most of the viewing audience are watching either Grey's Anatomy or Baseball tonight anyway.    And yes, anybody who is willing to deal with nonameblogger is a real loser.  Sigh, but that's life.

And did you see Jaymes response to this at OFC? She posted: even I don't feel entitled.

I thought those 5 words spoke volumes.
Looking forward to GMA tomorrow.
Shelley
Loved her.

Basically people feel because they are fans they are entitled to know everyhing about what Clay is doing at any given moment and in that case cited above, they want him to blog to fans every detail of what he's gone thru to finally come out....every detail....step my step over the last 10 years....as if they are entitled...and to tell them FIRST before doing a people article or whatever...

So Jaymes was saying even she doesn't feel entitled to ask that of him. I thought that showed a lot of class.

SHELLY, I agree that the post showed a lot of class.

EDITED:
And as I have stated a few times over the past 2 days, I am one who is not standing in judgement of Clay for his sexuality or anything else he chooses to pursue in his life.  That is between him and his God.


I am a fan of Clay the entertainer, the humanitarian and the wonderful human being that he continues to be!

Me too! Okay you may now resume thudding! :thud

I wish I had a live performance to get me thudding again!!!  Unfortunately it doesn't looks like it's in the books for me to go see "Spamalot" over the next few months.  Between my son's wedding, my mother's probable move from her apt. to assisted living and the Holidays, I'm sort of overbooked.   :bang :bang

I'm still holding out for a concert tour in early 2009! 

Night all!!!

Johanna! I've spent all day and night at OFC! Hello there....

I loved Best yet to come and I emailed Jaymes.....thank you for not saying the word SOON!  :lmao

Hi Shelley  :wave   Hi Johanna   :wave

Just welcoming the night shift.  Now I've got to go to bed.

I HAVE SUCH AN INCREDIBLY BUSY WEEKEND I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO START.  BARRY HAS A DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENT.  I HAVE REHAB.  GOTTA GET SOME GROCERIES.  MAH JONGG.  THAT IS TODAY.  TOMORROW LUNCH WITH A CLAY FRIEND.  DINNER WITH FRIENDS.  SUNDAY IS COOKING AND CLEANING ALL DAY.  BRISKET.  MORE SOUP. 

MONDAY IS A MAJOR JEWISH HOLIDAY.  13 PEOPLE COMING.

AND I HAVE THIS CLAY PERSON WHO IS MONOPOLIZING MY HEAD RIGHT NOW.  PLEASE, NO MORE DRAMA.  I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THIS RIGHT NOW.

WAITING FOR CLAY ON GMA.  PLEASE BE ON BEFORE 8:30.

GWENN

Not sure how much I will be on during the day. And I am going for that sleep test tonight. Hope to catch you all later

Have you been hitting the sauce again? :wink

Public board=public knowledge.

From abcnews.com, Clay's Coming Out Turns Off Some Claymates:

 (http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=5887544&page=1)

What I have seen from reading comments (which I usually dont do) is that they are overwhelmingly positive. Yes, there are a few "I knew it's" and "Finally's", but most of them are asking why it is such a big deal that he had to do this? That personal lives of stars should stay personal.  And telling the fan who stayed home from work and didnt answer the phone to "Get over herself!!" (I agree). Many mentioned how talented he is.

I think that now Clay is more at ease and a burden has been lifted. There will be some feedback for a few weeks but then I believe it will die down and Clay and the fandom that remains can carry on and enjoy the career and the fun that goes with it without having to dodge that issue

I too feel that he may garner more fans. As a matter of fact, my friend here at work who asked me if I was "all right" on Wednesday morning, has been reading articles. She came into my office yesterday and said she wanted to be one of the Claynation!! I said 'Really?" and she affirmed. So when she gets back off vacation she will be receiving some DVD's-Jukebox and SHRP to start  :roflmao

Let us proceed with the carrying on. :slick :purpbana

 :wave

Good Morning - another good interview, although it did not answer the most important question for me - what do Raleigh and Durham think about Parker???  :lol

Clay's horoscope for today:


And I don't think all of the comments are positive - I have been warned away from the GMA site, as far as reading comments go - I think I will go over and post a postivie one!

I didnt say they were ALL positive. The ones I read were MORE positive than negative. In fact the story I read there were 38 comments and only one was negative

 :lmao :lmao FRANKIE, now this has brought me out of lurkdom this morning!  Thanks for reminding me of our priorities!!!!  :hugg :hugg

 :wave Good morning, CM'ers.  Have a great day!

 :lmao SUNNY and MARILYN, wake me up when the "carrying on" starts!   :sleep

The entertainment industry, particularly the broadway community will celebrate and embrace Clay and his as he called it "unconventional family". His career will be fine, perhaps larger but it will not resemble his past career. As he said "middle america doesn't want that stuff pushed in their face". The middle america he talks about have left already. Those of that group who were on the fence, right or wrong, have just been pushed off the fence. Think of the cd sales right after AI. MOAM and ATDW and MCWL. The cd sales marked drop off after rumors. On My Way Here sales were dissapointing.  Think of that church that had Clay sing and that Pastor that assured his congregation that Clay was not gay and not a womanizer. Middle america, as Clay calls it, have left. Broadway has arrived for him.

MIMI,2 I would love to respond to your post in detail, but since I don't have the time or the desire to get into a heated discussion, I will refrain from doing so. All I will say is that I doubt that those people who have felt increasingly alienated from Clay because of his homosexuality (and allegations thereof )have  had that much influence upon Clay's record sales.   I think you're giving the "religious" factor far too much credit for having influenced the success (or failure) of Clay's career as far as sales go.

I actually think that much of middle America is being underestimated.  While there are extremes, even in large cities (largely, I think, based on religious ideology and predjudice), I think all Americans are finding -- as their own gay relatives come forward -- that tolerance is spreading.  In our business, we have guests from all over the world and from all over America -- and I'm always pleased to see how readily our hetero, often deeply conservative "middle America" guests embrace our openly gay guest couples -- even forming friendships and making social arrangements that extend beyond their stays here.

I have a friend who is an Evangelical Christian, who had to change her beliefs when her son came out.  She decided that her son was the way God made him, and that God was right and her pastor, who condemned homosexuality, was wrong.  She ditched the church (but later missed all the fun and speaking in tongues and fellowship -- so she actually went back but refuses to enable any of their predjudices).\

Just caught your post, Claydevotee, and I agree.

Whenever high profile people, like Clay, come forward, it can only help to further the respect given to all Americans for their inalienable right to the pursuit of happiness.

OK.  I HAVE BEEN ON THIS BOARD FOR OVER 5 YEARS.  WHO IS THIS PERSON QUOTED FROM HERE?  I NEVER HEARD OF HER.

SUNNY----I WISH I HAD BEEN HITTING THE SAUCE.  I HAVEN'T HAD A DECENT NIGHT'S SLEEP ALL WEEK.  TONIGHT I AM GONNA TAKE 2 ADVIL PM AND HOPE TO PASS OUT.  CLAY IS STILL KILLING ME 5 1/2 YEARS LATER.

MAINER--YOUR FRIEND SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD WOMAN.  IF MY MOM COULD HANDLE MY BROTHER BEING GAY, ANYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO.  NO ONE WAS MORE OLD FASHIONED.  SHE WAS RAISED IN A SMALL TOWN IN CENTRAL PA IN A VERY RELIGIOUS HOME.  WHEN YOU LOVE SOMEONE, YOU LOVE THAT PERSON WITH ALL THE WARTS AND ALL THE GOOD STUFF. 

NOW, LET'S HAVE SOME OF THE STUFF JAYMES ALLUDED TO.  WHAT DOES SHE MEAN BY------THE BEST IS YET TO COME?

BARRY IS HAVING ANOTHER HAND SURGERY 5 DAYS BEFORE THE GALA.  OY.  IF YOU THINK CLAY IS A LOT OF WORK, YOU HAVEN'T MET MY HUSBAND.  LEAVING FOR NEXT APPOINTMENT IN 15 MINUTES.

GWENN

The quote is from the shoutbox. We have a few members who only post in the shoutbox. And new members just finding their way sometimes go to the shoutbox first.

In the past few days we have had a big influx of new members. Some post, some don't.

Very sorry - I thought it was public knowledge that Clay's massive popularity during AI and during the WWJD braclet days was due to his huge christian fanbase. Of course that was not his only fans...but for awhile he was the poster boy for virginity, purity and geeks, something he said he had no problem being. Not a womanizer and not gay. His words. I always thought he meant them (christian fan base) when he referenced middle america not wanting that pushed in there face. I thought Clay losing that fan base was public knowledge. I just thought I was stating the obvious and not my opinion. Sorry, my opinions, if after awhile I feel they must be expressed, will be to him. I've always liked that he is not afraid to express his opinions, even if unpopular or just his. I love that he said he can't tell his mom, grandmother or fans that they're wrong...how open-minded is THAT!!

Gwenn   :wave  JMHO but I would suspect that Clay has huge personal and career stuff cooking...and the best if yet to come.

I always felt Clay's massive fan base during and after AI was his voice.  I think it still is.  How many have said "he had me at Take"?  Yes, he wore a WWJD braclet (that a fan gave him) for awhile, and yes, he sang a christian song in concert......he was a Christian then, and he's a Christian now.  A gay Christian.  Clay will lose a portion of his "middle America" Christian fan base, but certainly not all.  The tide is turning in this country (Thank God!) and I believe there are many "born-again Christians" who are tolorent and accepting.  At least, I hope so. 

I found a portion of the GMA interview that for some reason did not air......I think it's an important part.  Bolding mine.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/FallConcert/Stor...7736&page=2


QUOTE
"I'm sure that there are people who will grapple with it, you know. I'm sure that emotions will run the gamut from people who already knew, to people who really believed that it wasn't true. You know, the best I can do is say that I tried and I know that you know this, as hard as I could over the past five years, never to lie about it."

They pushed themselves off the fence.

And chose which side they came down on.

I just tiptoed over to the OFC and read.. :chair  So sad...so sad...

That is a  dark and dirty place..... Some of the things that are being suggested about Clay just blow my mind..How ugly....What part of people is it coming from???

What is wrong with some people????

Why is is that some cannot discuss, but rather spew hatred and ignorance???What demons really frighten their souls to hate as they do???

We all need to move foward and accept / embrace the ones who matter in our lives..If they have warts...DEAL....Remember.. We don't have them forever....And if they are here at this  moment in time in your life,, let's cherish the gift of love,and themselves  that they give..

Weigh one against the other..Choices are really what living is about....

With the explanation I now have, I can understand all that Clay has done. This understanding  is all I ever needed or wanted.. Before it was all too weird..  Now it's not...I am one of those who needs answers to life's questions in order to make sense out of them and conduct myself.... I wish to continue to support him and his career.Let's rejoice for the happiness and love he now has in his life. And as for Jaymes... This woman has given him HIMSELF and peace in his heart..
How WONDERFUL is that...???

 His coming into my life on so many levels has made me a better person...And this very tempest right now is of what I speak...  I hope others use this opportunity to  grow and  understand. as well..

Clayharmony -- I just read your post from yesterday and I really enjoyed it.  (Yes, I always tear through here -- and don't always catch everything.) 

Re late night gay jokes -- I rarely stay up that late, but it is time for all people to grow up and realize that jokes about sexual orientation are just so terribly out-dated and inappropriate, so totally unenlightened and incorrect -- like racial and ethnic and sexist material -- it's time for that culture to evolve.

As I have said many times, while I certainly appreciate all Clay has accomplished and who he is and what he does, my fan support has been primarily for him as a singer.  There is just something about Clay's voice that I find soothing and reassuring, hopeful -- and I appreciate his amazing talent and artistry, and the very unique quality to his wonderful voice which, in itself, has become something of an old friend.  In fact, the whole reason I have been supportive of Clay is very selfish -- I want him to continue to sing and entertain.  The years of my life, that correspond to the years of Clay's profession in entertainment, have not always been easy;  and I am so grateful that I have had his singing to take along on my journey, to listen and chill out to.

I just meant that some people may have thought the cover of People was a "push in there face" and that would have pushed them over...that's all. Let's all try to be kind and patient with each other in the fandom.  Just the way Clay has demonstrated with his mom, grandmother and fans.

lovinclay -- the ABC link is not working -- page does not exist...???

You are SO right. Its a shame really. But look at the wonderful adventure they are depriving themselves of!! I admire this man more and more each day. He is ALWAYS thinking of the feelings of others, sometimes to his detriment. Jaymes expressed how much the feelings of the fans meant to him CONSTANTLY- and that is why he left that thread unedited, no holds barred. Its just a shame that some people have to be vicious about it  (NOT ALL-some are just confused)

Not me- I had him in my sights from the beginning and I sure am not going to let go now. I am having too much fun!!! And when Jaymes said the best is yet to come-I will take her at her word. 

Next week they will announce the winner of the bio contest!! Keep your fingers crossed!!

Clay just posted on the OFC.

Clay just added a very nice post over at the OFC - post 5715 if anybody wants to go read it.

Sorry Micki - we were posting at the same time  :wave

Mainer, the link works for me.  But, you don't need to go to it anyway.  I quoted it below the link with the bolded part highlighted.

How did this young man get so wise, and so tolerant? With all the abuse heaped on him by media, slime, and a select few at the OFC, he asks us to let the people who are confused have their say- no matter WHAT!! That they not be attacked, that he not be defended in any way.

Its just too bad that some will not reciprocate that tolerance.

This is one of the reasons that Clay has my support and my heart. I sure do love him!!! :smile

I was referring to the idea of people taking responsibility for their own decisions. An event doesn't "push someone over the fence." The individual who was "on the fence" makes up their own mind and chooses their own actions in response to the event.

 :wave  Only got a minute to say hello. Been at OFC basically the last two days. Clay just did a long post. In a nutshell, he said don;t fight with each other BUT don't not let each other work it out.

What a man.

Did you see GMA - he Jaymes and Parker looked like a loving family. I am so darn proud of him.

Shelley

JUST READ CLAY'S POST.  HOW DID HE GET SO WISE AND SO INCREDIBLY TOLERANT HIMSELF?  WHAT A GUY.  HE NEVER, EVER CEASES TO SURPRISE ME.

BACK FROM A MERRY-GO-ROUND DAY.  STILL MORE TO COME AND ALL I WANT TO DO IS READ THIS STUFF. 

LIZ--I FEEL LIKE YOU ARE SUFFERING.  TAKE YOUR TIME.  IT WILL WORK THROUGH.  LOVE CONQUERS ALL.   :hugg :hugg :hugg

GOTTA WATCH GMA AGAIN.  BOTH PARTS.  I BOUGHT PEOPLE FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE.  I DON'T BUY THIS STUFF.  BARRY LOOKED AT ME LIKE I WAS FROM MARS.

GWENN

IT IS AMAZING.  WHEN I LEFT THE OFC WAS ABOUT READY TO IMPLODE.  CLAY COMES ON AND POSTS AND THEY ARE DISCUSSING PINEAPPLE SALAD AND NAKED CLAY. :bduh :bduh :bduhI READ ABOUT 3 PAGES AND IT WAS LIKE SOME OF THOSE FOLKS HAD A LOBOTOMY.  THAT GUY IS MAGIC.  MAYBE HE NEEDS TO GO TO WASHINGTON AND STRAIGHTEN OUT THE CONGRESS AND ALL THE CRAP THEY ARE SPEWING RIGHT NOW.

GWENN

I am going to pickup a couple of People mags after work- one for my Clay Scrapbook and the other to frame the family pic!!

And just lookee what a wonderful person on CV made

awwwwwwww-just warms the cockles of my heart!

Those lips are STILL looking eminently kissable and I sure would like to test that theory out!! :bigsmile

Gwenn  :roflmao  you crack me up!!!

I was just trying  to tie the two "pushed" words together.  Poor writing style.

WORD!!!! I saw you over there earlier. TG my boss is out of town. I've gotten NOTHING done for 2 days!!!

I guess I need to go try out that salad....

                               well where have i been reading holy cow.I MUST ADMIT I HAVE BEEN STRUGGILING THE PAST FEW DAYS MYSELF.ITS NOT CLAY ITS ME AND MY BELEIF SYSTEM THAT I AM GRAPPLING WITH.NOT SURE WHAT I WILL ULTIMATELY DO. I HAVE TO TAKE MY LIFE BACK TO TO MUCH TIME ON THE BOARDS,AFFECTING MY PHYSICAL HEALTH I DID NOT SLEEP NOR EAT FOR 2 OR MORE DAYS, NOTHING  WORTH MAKING MYSELF SICK OVER.

                          I DO THINK I GOT TO OVERLY VESTED IN CLAY I MUST FIND A BETTER BALANCE  NOT THAT I DO NOT LOVE HIM TO BITS.CAUSE I DO BUT MY LIFE HAS PRETTY MUCH REVOLVED AROUND HIM FOR SEVERAL YEARS. IT  IS WHAT IT IS.

                         I AM GOING TO MY DAUGHTERS SUNDAY FOR A FEW DAYS TO LOOK FOR A NEW PLACE, HOPEFULLY A NEW LIFE CHANGE WILL HELP ME PUT THINGS INTO A BETTER PERSPECTIVE.I HOPE SO ANYWAY.

                        JUST KNOW I LOVE YOU ALL VERY VERY MUCH I JUST NEED A BREAK FROM ALL THIS RIGHT NOW.LIKE CLAY SAID PATIENCE  I HOPE YOU ALL WILL BE PATIENT WITH ME AND GIVE ME THE SUPPORT I NEED.TO GIVE ME TIME TO GATHER MY THOUGHTS.

GLORY!! :hugg :hugg :hugg

David Foster's  comments on Clay and Jaymes

WHISTLERQUESTION.COM (http://www.whistlerquestion.com/article/20080925/WHISTLER04/309259872&SearchID=73331135315255)

This is a video - Give it a second to load

^{*edited to fix scrolling link - c}

Jaymes is back on OFC posting comments #6304

I just went to the OFC, and I think they removed the People Magazine thread, so I can't find Clay's post.  Does anyone know if they shut down that thread?

 :hugg Glory - rest, enjoy the grandchildren, and, hopefully, you will feel lots better about all of this after you get back. I'm sorry that so many fans are hurting so much over this - wish I knew how to help.

 :clap That William Joseph is working with David Foster - I have wondered how his career was going many times.

The People thread is still there. I posted on it about 5 minutes ago.

There is a people.com thread, but I can't find the People Article thread. In it's place it says  "NEVER."

I think it was taken down too.

The thread is still there. If you go to the message board look under:

Anything Clay
---> The Man
-------> People Magazine Interview

If you want to find Jaymes' or Clay's posts without going through every page you can do a search.

When you get to the Message Board click on SEARCH.
Then click ADVANCED SEARCH
Put their screen name in the box on the right to SEARCH BY USER NAME
Scroll down and click SEARCH NOW

It will bring up their posts newest one first.

In the advanced search you can also choose to only show posts from a certain time on. (I chose "yesterday").

Thanks for the step-by-step, Moonie! :hugg

It's much better to be able to pinpoint a single post you want to see than to try to navigate your way through the entire site, knowing only that "the thread is supposed to be here somewhere...." :lol

:lol Welcome! I hardly ever go over to the OFC mainly because of the type of conversation over there but also because of navigation and the whole "where'd they put what?" :lol

I just left the OFC.

Geez!!  Makes my head spin reading those posts.

Seems to be only about 2-3 people now that feel Clay has lied to them.

I love that man more now than ever   :hugg

   :hypno :yeahthat  :hypno

Thanks for this Michelle!  I also have trouble finding what I need over there.  This will save me alot of time scrolling through pages of posts.  I spent alot of time trying to remember how to spell Jaymes' screenname too today.  Just for reference in case I'm not the only one....

Jaymes = clayandr
Clay = clayaiken

Do they still have the 'buddy list' over there?  I used to have them both on my buddy list but I haven't been able to locate it again.  :scratch

I don't know. If you go to "Your Page" they have 'Friends'. Is that the same thing? It's such a pain I hardly go to the OFC but when I do I always get  :hypno

I bet his album sales will go up...
People (overall) are being SUPER supportive. If he keeps himself in the public eye and takes Simon's advice, all will be STUPENDOUS!
I hope for a summer tour...in due time...
-viki
p.s. WHATEVER HE DOES I WILL BE HAPPY WITH! As long as HES happy!

BACK FROM MAH JONGG AND WATCHING THE DEBATE.  MY HEAD HURTS FROM ALL THIS THINKING THIS WEEK.  I AM TIRED AND I HOPE I CAN SLEEP.  WON'T TALK POLITICS.  JUST THAT I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY WELL MODERATED. 

THE THREAD IS STILL THERE.  I LEFT THE WINDOW OPEN AND REFRESHED.  NO PROBLEM.  I HOPE THINGS THERE ARE OK.  I CAN'T READ ANYMORE.  I NEED A BREAK.

GLORY--- :hugg :hugg :hugg  WE WILL ALWAYS BE HERE FOR YOU.

OF COURSE I WAS ASKED ABOUT CLAY.  ONE OF MY FRIENDS WAS JUST VERY CURIOUS.  ONE OF MY CLOSEST FRIENDS JUST DOESN'T UNDERSTAND WHY I CARE AT ALL.  SHE WAS SURPRISED WHEN I ENDED THE DISCUSSION BY SAYING---I AM JUST GLAD HE IS HAPPY.  SHE COULDN'T BELIEVE I CARED IF HE WAS HAPPY OR HOW I KNEW HE WAS HAPPY.  HOW CAN I EXPLAIN TO HER?  I JUST DIDN'T BOTHER.  IT IS WAY TOO COMPLEX.  WE ALL GET IT.

GWENN

Gwenn ~ In the last few days I have developed a great respect for you, and have really enjoyed your posts.

 I am really looking forward to getting to know you better...Can't hardly wait until the gala...just 22 more days. :shappy

When Clay was in Cary (at the Koka Booth Ampitheatre)for the ATDW Tour....I'm sure you all remember Clay laying his forehead on the mikestand & folding his hands as if in prayer.This is also the night that swampthing & nonameblogger showed up,and the bus line was cancelled.

He was singing, Because You Loved Me,and after looking at his face I wonder if he could have been thinking ,if only you knew ,would you still love me.... I just can't get this image out of my mind, and it mades me very sad to know that he has been so burdened with this for so long.

I for one am glad that he has finally found happiness, and has a wonderful family that loves & supports him.

I am proud to be a fan, an I love & respect him for his honesty...I personally do not think he lied , he did avoid the answer, but he also said people are going to believe what they want to ,so how does that make it a lie?...

 :wave Hi everyone...I am beat. 2 1/2 days of reading at the OFC - oy!

I noticed Clay was online at 11 pm at OFC and I thought - that's weird. He just finished the show. It appears he was PM-ing the Mods. They've decided to open up a second thread for the hard core who want to spew....my words, not his. And even though Clay is still allowing people to post without being edited for the next 11 days, they did finally put up some rules about civility!

I am so tired between work, the OFC and the debate.  Plus int he middle of all this tonight my 18 yr old daughter (a causal Clay fan) sat with me for an hour and asked me to show her some clack!!! So we looked at al the Kimmel shows - she loved them! And then some of the banter from SRHP esp the ones where he talked about the bugs.

Interesting couple of day, eh?

Shelley

I love listening to Clay singing to Parker. 

Maybe someone here (can I interest you in this Shelley?) who is also on the OFC would consider suggesting to Clay and Jaymes that a lullaby CD -- maybe even something acapella or with a very simple accoustic accompaniment , not a whole lot of production behind it -- maybe even just a three-song "single" if not a whole CD -- woud be just wonderful for fans and others to be able to buy to give at Xmas.  A lullaby CD would be especially timely for Christmas, as Christmas celebrates the nativity.

P.S.  Oh, such wishful thinking, I know --- and would I ever love to hear Clay sing "Rock-a-by Baby" in both English AND Penobscot, as the lullaby is native American in origin, I believe.  (Former Penobscot chief Barry Dana would certainly help with the translation -- Dana, who is a cultural educator of both natives and non-natives, recorded it himself in a retelling of a story of "Baby Jeejuss" and his mother.)

Marlene -- Wonderful post.  I was also there and that is a moment I'll never forget.

Gotta go get ready for granddaughter's soccer game today and to make me a big note so I won't forget Paula Deen tonight.

Everyone have a great day

Very well said Marlene.    :clap

Because people are going to believe what they want to. For some folks, it's easier to tell themselves, "He lied to us!" so they can feel all righteously angry and hurt. It places the source of their feelings on Clay, rather than on their own attitudes about things.

I was so happy to see Clay, Jaymes and Parker in the GMA interview.  Their family may be unconventional, but I'm so glad that Parker will have a mom and dad.  I was at the OFC the last few days and it truly amazes me how angry some people are.  Some of the anger is in reaction to other people's responses in the thread.  Some people are really coming across as so self righteous.  I saw the first Diane Sawyer interview when he said he wasn't a womanizer or gay.  I also realize that he hadn't even told his family yet and he's supposed to come out to a national TV audience first?  We've all been in a situation where we may not have told the truth to protect family or friends.  I truly believe Clay wasn't being intentionally deceitful.  Just as he's shown by his posts at the OFC, especially the one yesterday, he truly cares about his fans.  Well, I'm still here and plan to stay here.  I wish the people who are really going off the deep end at the OFC would be as compassionate and understanding as the people here have been.  It seems like I've posted a lot lately about my feelings on this matter, but it's so good to be able to read the great things you all say here.  Have a great day everyone.


Debbie

   For those who say that all gay people are sinners:
Is it sin  to love children??
Is it sin to care about others??
Is it sin to become popular in order to make a difference in the world??
Is it sin to have a big heart??
Is it sin to have a lot of love??
Is it really a sin to be friendly, helpful, respectful, sweet, talented, strong-willed person???
 
   If Clay Aiken is a sinner, then we're the devils..
   If according to bibble he's a sinner, then I don't believe in Your God anymore..
   Cuz my God loves good people..

PEPE, I don't believe anybody on the Poltical Thread or any other thread, for that matter,  is "in big trouble" by expressing their opinions as long as it is done so in a respectful manner without condemning another's point of view that might differ from yours.   However, when you do "put yourself out there", you need to expect that others may disagree with you and  you should not take it personally.

That, in a nutshell, is why our discussions here on the Critical Mass are so successful.  Respect, tolerance and being non-judgemental is what separates us from other Boards. 

I am proud to be a Claymaniac.

Thank you for that, MELODIA.  Personally, I wish the word "sinner" could be eliminated from discussions about Clay and the impact of his "coming out" on each of our lives.  To me, "sinner" implies harsh judgement being placed upon another. Who are we to judge another? Personally,  I'll leave the judging to a much Higher Power. 

In the meantime, I will continue to love and support Clay Aiken the man, the entertainer and the humanitarian. 

MORNING--

WELL, MY DAY GOT SCREWED UP.  LOST ELECTRICITY DURING THE NIGHT AND IT JUST GOT BACK UP.  SO, I THOUGHT I COULD COOK MY BRISKET BEFORE GOING OUT TO LUNCH. NOT TO BE.  ANNOYING.  MORE TO DO TOMORROW.  I HATE BEING RUSHED ESPECIALLY WHEN WE NEED SO MUCH CLAY TIME RIGHT NOW.

MARLENE-- :hugg :hugg  BACK ATCHA.

TO ME A SINNER IS SOMEONE WHO KILLS, RAPES, AND DESTROYS.  CLAY IS SOMEONE WHO WORKS FOR GOOD AND WHAT IMPROVES.  HE SURELY IS NOT SINNER.

GWENN

Amen, Sistah Gwenn!!!!   :wink :hugg

EDIT:

P.S.  To all of those who post on other Boards about Clay being a "sinner".  I don't know about yours, but my God is a very loving God who wants nothing more than for each of us to return to Him along with our loved ones to live with Him for all eternity.

And I know in my heart that someday Clay, Jaymes and Parker will all live as an eternal family unit up in Heaven.  I believe that with all of my heart and soul.

 :wave Hi ClayManiacs,
 
It's Clay-The MAN  (http://ashes-clay-theman.blogspot.com/)time again. My feelings haven't changed over the past few days (well they were shook up by that blaring headline on PEOPLE for about 10 minutes), I stand by Clay as always. In that vein my new blog I Will Be Here (http://ashes-clay-theman.blogspot.com/)  is following the same path it always has, with love and respect.

I'm looking forward to seeing you there!  :hugg

judge not

Some true fans will not accept Clay's orientation, but remember also that Clay has always had "haters" who pose as fans.

I remember the trials and tribulations of desegregation (relatives were active in the Civil Rights movement), of women's liberation -- still an ongoing struggle, and now we are going through the same thing regarding gay rights and discrimination against gays. 

It is easy to reconcile predjudice with religious belief and, as Clay has said, he grew up in an atmosphere where homosexuality was considered to be a choice.  IMHO, sin does not apply to being who you are and fulfilling and living up to your (God given and granted) potential.

I just wanted to say that I may disagree with Clay's lifestyle and may not understand it.  But I didn't become a fan because he was "straight" or "gay."  I became a fan because I fell in love his voice, then his love of special needs children and now his humanitarian efforts.  What is done behind closed doors has nothing to do with why I became a fan.

 :clayfan

Hi, Well I 'll just add my two cents in...Beth I agree with what you just said, the biggest problem is the media won't leave it alone, for instance the forthcoming story On E News The True Story(or what ever it's called)..Why do they feel thats necessary? Why not just leave it alone..They didn't do all this to Lance Bass and others in Hollywood that have recently announced they were Gay...I just wish it could be left behind closed doors, but our society seems to thrive on senationalism...and isn't that a shame ? It mades me very sad.

 :word MARLENE! It is a shame, but IMO unfortunately there's not a whole lot we as individuals can do other than not watch it ourselves and/or write to the sponsors of these shows voicing our objections.   Personally I never turn to "E" news, and when "TMZ" comes on I immediately turn to another channel.   Plus....I have stopped watching "The People's Court" because Harvey Levin (of TMZ) is the moderator there, as well.   :bang 

Shall I just say that these exploiters "try my patience"?  Yup, I think that's politically correct enough!!!!  :lol

I am not a member of OFC anymore mainly because of the unfriendlyness of the people there who were so self rightious . But i would like to read Jaymes post. If anyone is willing to share it would you PM me ? Or just post the excerpts please. thanks . Lmatheson

There was a link this morning, ABC.com I think, to an online article regarding "some" Clay fans' disillusionment -- several quotes from disgruntled fans from some site or other -- rather than mentioning the overwhelming support he is getting.  This too shall pass, when some other attention grabbing headlines about other celebs become the latest.

It is interesting to me, however, how very much interest there is in Clay.  He seems to be becoming much more of a cultural icon than he has been before, he is getting much more recognition in the media and he is becoming better known.  He really is becoming a major celebrity, which could translate to access to many more opportunities for him.

Thea~  I agree I will not lower myself to watch that trash, but I did not realize just how low E News would stoop until they put that so called story on with swampthing. Gag!!!Enough of him already...he needs to get over himself. Poor baby! NOT! :bduh

Hi you all :hugg

It seems at times like this, this site becomes all the more amazing to me...I can feel the love, compassion and openness here...respect for differences...all that drew me to Clay seems so real here...again I'm grateful.  I am grateful for the courage of our members...Gwenn to share so openly her journey with her brother...and Marlene who shares her journey through life's ultimate loss, and Glory who shares her strength in endurance...I am grateful for the gentle humor...Sunny at the helm...but by no means the only wit among us...Marilyn for articulating our love for Clay...must see your E 'debut'...and on it goes...just to mention a few...  

 I too have a story that might help those who struggle...perhaps it will shed some insight on this recent 'revelation'? by Clay..which to me, represents more the state of his 'internal freedom'...in electing to become a father and love a child, Clay had to first free himself from societal norms if you will, and be secure in following his own truth.  Thank goodness he has been able to walk that path...so that he is fulfilled in ways only known by those who have been comparably blessed with the love of a child, the inclusion in a loving family, however it is defined.  I'll now begin a tale from my life...

I dreamed of the man I was to marry since I was a little girl.  I was so blessed, being the daughter of the dearest man I know, my father.  He was so much like Clay...handsome, irreverent, charming, intelligent, deeply compassionate, and so very much in love with my mother...a truly classy gentleman.  Of course, I wanted to marry a man just like him.  And, I thought I had...but, I'm getting ahead of myself here.  

As a lover of music, the fine arts, philosophical discussions, fine food...all of my passions...I looked to find a guy who appreciated such things in like kind.  One day, I was sitting pool side adorned in the finest bathing suit I've ever had...a peach Anne Klein...it fit me perfectly...and my figure then was second to none...I was engrossed in note taking for a class I was taking for my career in private industry...when this young man started to flirt with me.  Gals...I had checked him out as he made his way past my apartment, in and out of the building...I even almost crashed my car when he gave me a brilliant smile as he was exiting the local car wash.  This young man had been a competitive ice skater...almost to the national ranks...body beautiful, indeed...he looked like a young Tyrone Power for those of you who enjoy classic Hollywood films.

He asked me out finally...I was going down to the laundry room for the last time late at night...I had been gabbing on the phone with my best friend for hours and forgot about the load I'd left in the dryer...I had on only a thin 'shift' as we called them in those days...half of my make up had worn off...I was a mess...and I ran smack dab into him in that tiny room...my cheeks were red...I tried to grab my clothes...I had to lean over, yet not show I'd not a stitch of underwear on...and he smiled that amazing smile at me...and asked me out for two dates at once...to the LA Phil...and also to dinner...OMG...he loves classical music...first of my list.

It developed from there...the dates began the new year...I chuckled to myself...it almost seem like a New Year's resolution ...and to my later painful understanding, that was my first clue.  We  began to see each other in earnest...and love began to build...but so did my anxiety...there were some movements that seemed effeminate...and just a feeling that I tried so hard to dismiss that persisted in spite of my rationalizations.  We decided to move in together...my budget was such a squeaker...and he talked about the fiscal benefits it would accrue me...he held a financial position for a fortune 500 company. ...not so he could see me 24/7...although that was the reality of our interaction by then...yet ding, ding...the persuasion was economic, not from passion...so clear to see now...and on it went...I'll try to speed this up...I've never written about this before, in this way...just after I had packed everything...given notice...all of that, 'B' tells me he loves me...'and' that he has been 'also' attracted to fellows...only has loved women, but... Well gals, this was the a member of the sixties generation he was talking to ...and I just 'attempted' to embrace it as it was...liberated woman that I was...not.  My anxiety mounted...I did move in...we did marry...and my anxiety grew exponentially...you see, Clay found the courage to follow his truth, and I had not...It was true I deeply loved this man...and he DID love me...but in my heart, I knew that it did not support marriage...love does not conquer all...one day, a for sure gay young fellow flirted with him right in front of me...and B responded so vibrantly...I was just heart sick...sick to the core of me...I knew that I had never evoked quite that eviseral a response in him...and I knew I had to leave...I went into counseling...and prepared for that day.  B ended up getting drunk one night...the only time he ever did...and then it was over...he was not just struggling with his sexual identity, he was also bi polar...OMG the terrible pain he was in.

For me,  I was thrust into a crash course to understand sexuality...and to understand how I became the woman he loved...I do believe sexuality exists on a continuum, if you will...some being at each end of the spectrum...and some truly in the middle.  I had wanted to believe B was bi...and I still think he is pretty close to that, with the understanding I have of him and of this, today.  I think that Clay might have thought he was bi at one point, too.  That is what I actually thought he was for a long time.  It is a moot point now...he's found his place sexually.  But, I bring this up because, he parsed his words so carefully on this, it felt to me...he didn't protest and say, "I'm straight"...he at first, just said he wasn't gay...and then after 2003, just didn't comment directly.  I thought he was still exploring...most men research states do have a few same sex experiences...and to me, Clay hadn't been all that ready prior to AI...I assumed he was quite sheltered.  Of course it matters not to me where Clay was in this process, I just knew first hand from the man I loved, how deep the distress is at times...and how much more complex it is to become fully aware of ones identity than is commonly thought.  

A post script...about ten years after B left, he sought me out as I was in the choir line, ready to enter church...and asked 'remember me?'...OMG...the rush of emotions...the hug I can still feel right now...and the relief knowing that our love was real...it really was...we both felt it to the core, right then and there.  We were able to exchange letters of love and forgiveness after that...and to this day, I am grateful to have loved this man.

Marlene,
            I love reading you posts because you have so much compassion.
      Although I did think Clay was not gay, I sometimes thought " What if he were,


       how would I feel"? The answer is very simple.... just the same as before!
       I love him for all the good things he does and how he cares for children and
       people who need help.
         I have always had the belief that gay people are born that way so how can
       we condemn them for that? Why are they not allowed to find happiness and
        not have to endure so much hate  I don"t believe that Clay is a sinner and I
        know God does"nt think so either.  There is so much evil in this world, what
        happened to love and compassion?????
 
                                                                 Betty

 :hugg  BETTY, I couldn't agree more and to label him as that is very distressing to me on so many levels. 

JOHANNA, thanks so much for sharing such a personal life-altering experience with us.   :hugg  I relate to some of your feelings about falling in love with a gay man.  As a music major in college, I was surrounded by several gay friends (actually both male and female).  The love and compassion I received from one young gay man, in particular, forever shaped what I subsequently sought in a relationship with a man.   In our marriage Phil and  I have tried over the years to instill those same soft, gentle qualities into our own sons along with the necessary "manliness" needed to get along in this world.

Sometimes I wonder if by today's standards even Jesus Christ would have been considered to "gay" or at the very least, "effeminate".  It boggles my mind. 

JOHANNA !   :hugg  What a beautifully written post.  Thank you for sharing such a personal experience.  You experienced such a loving relationship.  You were so wise to get counseling when you became more aware of his situation. I don't doubt for a minute (when reading your post) that he loved you.  I understand your concluson that there are many levels of sexuality.  I hadn't given that a thought.

Were people supportive of you when the romance ended??  I hope so.  Again, thank you for your honesty and insight.

ETA ~  THEA - we must have been posting in unison.   :smile

 :lol WISC BARB.  "Great minds...." and all that good stuff!!!

 :wave I used that footage which was AWESOME for my montage - A Light in the Dark - if you loved that song and that moment PLEASE look at my montage. I wasn't there in person but doing the montage I cried the entire time - the outpouring of love from the fans was amazing. I use the film footage of the glowsticks thru out the film - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKStQVbQgvM
http://www.sendspace.com/file/qetvw0 (http://www.sendspace.com/file/qetvw0)

Johanna,

You are a treasure. Thank you for sharing yourself with us. :hugg

Johanna my dear...

You are very kind to share such an intimate story with us....

Being a professional musician and actor I have also had my share of loving encounters with gay individuals (not as deep as yours!!!) and I think that's why I understand why Clay took this process one step at a time from 2003 to the present...it's not cut and dry or black and white as people think for a gay man or woman...

And honey, all I can say is wow. It's obvious that you still love your ex-husband....and love is what it's all about....

 :hugg

Clayharmony -- I just read your amazing post -- thank you so very much for that.   

Mimi -- this reminds me of something I think I remember someone posting here about Clay's opening (I think) performance in Spamalot 2.  (Gad, whither memory?) As I remember it, the poster said that Clay was bent down over the stage floor and was visibly shaking, and the poster didn't know if he was laughing or crying .....  or in pain .... or what.... 

Well, I'm off to watch Shelley's montages -- looking forward to them, Shelley.

Joanna, what a beautiful post.  Thank you for bearing your soul to us.  That must have been heartwrenching.  I had a very dear friend that when he told me he was gay, I cried.  My heart was broken.  But I learned a lesson: the best girlfriend in the world is a gay guy!!! 
I so admire Clay for everything that he is doing to help his fans deal with his news.  He did not have to do this.  He is an amazing man.  I love him so and will forever be a fan.

First - thank you for watching my montages. There is a montage thread that has ALL of them  :lol

Second I was there at the opening and found out later -- you'll love this - the reason clay stayed down on the floor was his zipper had come down and he needed to fix it!!

                      JOHANNA WHAT A AMAZING STORY.  :hugg

              I

                          SERIOUSLY GETTING READY TO LEAVE FOR KY.GOING TO LOOK FOR A PLACE TO LIVE. MAYBE I WILL AND MAYBE I WON'T BUT LIFE IS GOOD NO MATTER WHAT. I WILL MISS YOU WHILE I AM GONE KEEP THE HOME FIRES BURNING WHILE I AM GONE, JUST DON'T BURN THE PLACE DOWN PLEASE. I COULD TELL YOU SOME STORIES ABOUT THAT SUBJECT BUT I WILL NOT. :roflmao

Shelley ~ Thanks so much for the wonderful montage..another great one.

It just reaffirms for me why I Love this man so.   :luv

Glory~ Have a safe journey & just enjoy being with your daughter & family...

We will all be here waitng for your return.

Marlene :hugg

where did the scoll go

Thank you. I spend half the time crying on my keyboard when I am doing these! :lol

I am trying to figure out a new one for Parker....stay tuned...and I am not even gonna say SOON because, you know, that could start a war around here!!!! :lmao

quote:
Second I was there at the opening and found out later -- you'll love this - the reason clay stayed down on the floor was his zipper had come down and he needed to fix it!!

There's a zipper in his tights?

That's what I was told!!!!!!! But it could've been something else he was adjusting....just sayin...

I guess he really likes his job. :giggle

luluasst, thank you so much for your wonderful montages. I just finished watching "Because you love me", and cried my eyes out also.

I really love Clay Aiken!

Rosemary

I just watched Clay on Paula Deen Show, and am so glad that he has shorten his hair & gone back to darker...It kind of looked like straw, who did that styling didn't do such a good job.

He did get to mention the album several times ,so Im curious to see after the mention on Paula's Show ,plus all that has gone on this past week if sales will go up any this coming weekfor On My Way Here....

He was adorable on that show...but I agree, that blonde hair had to go! :lol
-viki

-viki :purpbana

Oh yeah, that's all he'd need--to cut it himself! :doh :lol

WELL, I WAS PRETTY CLOSE AND HE HAD HIS HANDS IN FRONT OF HIM, SO IF HE WAS ADJUSTING ANYTHING THAT MAN IS A LOT MORE TALENTED THAN ANYONE REALIZES!!  :bigsmile

AND ON  A MORE PRACTICAL NOTE-HIS TUNIC SLIT IS CUT A LITTLE HIGHER I THINK (OR SO IT SEEMS ON JUST A GLANCE.............. :slick)

DID I SAY HIS EYES WERE GLOWING AND HIS FACE WAS JUST WONDERFUL TO SEE AGAIN?? MAD TALENTED SEXY MAN THAT HE IS!!

I was so sorry to hear today of the death of Paul Newman. What a magnificent actor and a handsome man!! He and Joanne Woodward were married for 50 years!! So wonderful to see that degree of commitment in todays day and age.

Marilyn ~ I have been married to Roger 47 years in Jan...and I love him more today than yesterday...each day!

Marilyn I agree, and he will be missed.  Marlene how beautiful :hugg

May I boast???  My mom and dad had their 65th wedding anniversary August 21st, how proud they both were to have this glorious milestone, and their love was deep and true.  More poignant even now as most of you know my wonderful dad pased away Sept 14th :hugg

 :hugg :hugg

BACK FROM DINNER WITH FRIENDS.

I FORGOT TO TAPE CLAY ON PAULA DEAN.  :bang :bang :bang :pullhair :pullhair :pullhair :doh :doh :doh  MY GOD, I HOPE SOMEONE RIPPED IT.  I CANNOT BELIEVE I FORGOT. 

JOHANNA--ONE OF THE BEST POSTS.  YOU ARE DEAR FOR SHARING.

I MUST FIND A DOWNLOAD.

GWENN

You are welcome. The montages are on their own thread if anyone wants to get them some  clack fast!  I am finishing one for Parker - should be ready in an hour.  Rosemary is talking about the Cary show last year - link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKStQVbQgvM

 :lmao

I have been lurking on this board for years, but the current comments about Clay gives me every reason to make my first post.  Let me try to explain to some of you folks who are not Christians why some over at OFC are calling Clay a sinner.  Clay says he is a Christian which means that he has accepted Jesus Christ as his personal savior and has asked for forgiveness of his sins.  So now you may ask: "Well, What is sin?"  Any time you are not in God's will, you are sinning.  There are commandments by Jesus in addition to the Ten Commandments in the Old Testament that we, as Christians, are asked to follow.  By not following God's laws, you are not in God's will (or sinning).  According to 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, homosexuality is a sin and those committing the act will not get into the kingdom of heaven.  In God's eyes all sins are equal, no big or little sins, just sin.  While I think Clay did not choose this course for himself, he can certainly make the choice to live or not live a homosexual lifestyle.  Is it fair to ask Clay not to honor his sexual urges?  I say yes!  It is just as fair as God asking us not to kill, steal, cheat, covet, dishonor, hate, and the list goes on and on...  That is where I stand, and I am betting his mother believes this as well.  I hope this clears up the reason for the sinning comments.  We in the Christian community cannot decide that homosexuality is not a sin.  God has already decided it is and there is no delete button.

But, thank God, there is a scroll button.

Clay did stage door tonight!!! :purpbana Been dieing to see that beautiful smile that still makes my heart melt. :luv

Curious to hear how many people were there.

Yay! :bouncy  I hope he was well-received. :purpbana

 :woohoo

GONNA BE A PERFECT cLAY  gO AHEAD VENT AND VOICE YOUR OPINIONS  hE WOULD NOT TELL YOU YOUR WRONG  cLAY WANTS EVERYBODY TO BATTLE WITH IT WORK IT THE BEST WE CAN........JUST NOT BE MEAN TO EACH OTHER   :cry

SD...  Good for you Clay!!!   :shappy :purpbana :bouncy

HE WAS SO CUTE ON PAULA DEAN BUT I AM NOT SAD TO SEE THE BLOND GO.

ON THE VERY POSITIVE SIDE---NO GLASSES!!!!!!!!!!!!

GBAPD--I EXPRESSED MY VIEWS ON SINNING BEFORE.  EVERYONE HERE KNOWS I AM JEWISH, BUT FOR ME, THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE WHAT WE ALL SHARE.  I DON'T KNOW ANYWHERE NEAR AS MUCH ABOUT JESUS AS YOU DO, BUT I DO KNOW THAT HE WAS A MAN WHO BELIEVED IN DOING UNTO OTHERS, ETC.  HE WAS A MAN WHO COULD FORGIVE A PROSTITUTE.  I CANNOT BELIEVE HE WAS A MAN WHO WAS JUDGMENTAL.  IT JUST DOESN'T FOLLOW.  WE ARE ALL HUMAN.  WE ALL NEED TO LOVE AND BE LOVED.  WE ALL NEED HUMAN CONTACT.  I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT GOD MADE HUMANS TO LIVE LONELY AND UNLOVED.  I JUST CAN'T.  I LOOK AT A CHILD MOLESTER AS A SINNER NOT A HUMAN BEING WHO JUST WANTS TO LIVE HIS LIFE IN A LOVING WAY.  I AM SORRY IF THIS IS OFFENSIVE, BUT THOSE WHO KNOW ME KNOW THAT I NEVER WOULD OFFEND ANYONE ON PURPOSE.

THERE ARE SOME TROLLS OVER AT THE OFC.  SAYING THAT CLAY AND JAYMES POSTED AT swampthing'S SITE.  CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?  CLAY WANTED THAT SITE TO BE UNCENSORED, BUT I DO THINK THAT IT HAS BEEN INVADED BY THE LOONS.

INTERESTING---I WAS TALKING ABOUT GMA, ETC. AT OUR FRIENDS' HOUSE AND TOLD ABOUT WHAT CLAY HAD SAID ABOUT SAYING ANYTHING YOU WANT ABOUT HIM BUT NOT EACH OTHER.  THE HUSBAND SAID--THAT IS SOME BALLS. I NEVER THOUGHT OF HIM AS HAVING THAT KIND OF NERVE. I MAY HAVE TO GIVE HIS MUSIC A REAL LISTEN. :bduh :bduh :bduh  I DON'T GET THAT BUT I DID WANT TO SHARE.

GWENN

I DO love you!! :hugg

Report is that there were two rows of barriers up tonight at SD (whatever that means)...Good crowd...Got a hug from one of the McVargas girls,and he kissed her on the cheek.

MARILYN--YOUR AVIE IS THE BEST.

CLAY DID THE SD TONIGHT!!!!!!!!  LOTS OF MEN THERE.  I AM HAPPY.  I READ HE LOOKED REALLY HAPPY.  MAYBE WE CAN GET BACK TO NORMAL?

GWENN

It may be a new normal, but normal is good  :bigsmile.

Coming here after being at the OFC is like a breath of fresh air.  Thank you to everyone here who can share their own opinion or comment on someone else's opinion, and even disagree in a mature and loving way.   :clap   :clap   :clap

I always loved the peace making phrase, let's agree to dissagree.  It sure is OK for us to think and feel different things, and I know I have no right to judge Clay or anyone else.  I don't see arguments here and some of the nasty, personal attacks being made to Clay and Jaymes, as well as other posters at the OFC.  I'm proud to be a Claymaniac.  Thank you all.

Debbie

Normal is very overrated.... :para

But what if we were never normal to begin with :para

you gals are funny!  :lol

 :wave Hello from California. Sorry I've been AWOL it's because I've been at OFC for 3 days - whew. Nice to be back here to *normalcy*  :smile

OK I did a montage about little Parker. So here he is - enjoy!
http://www.sendspace.com/file/jlmp5k

Shelley

Shelley,

That was beautiful!  :hugg

Thank you! I need to go now...um, something in my eye...

I saw the SD video and I've never seen Clay look so happy and there seemed to be quite a few people there too. He was given a huge bouquet of flowers and a bunch of balloons and cards and he seemed really thrilled.

I think Clay is going to be just fine, and I think we are too.  :smile

BTW I find it hard putting sin and Clay Aiken in the same sentence. Just doesn't compute.  :bigsmile

Gwenn,
Thank you for admitting that you do not understand the teachings of Jesus.  I understand now why you made the comments you made.  My Christians For Clay group here in North Carolina has decided to love Clay as he is.  Haven't we always?  It does not mean we endorse Clay's lifestyle, but we do appreciate and enjoy Clay's talent, compassion for his fellow man, and love for his fans and family.  Once again, I go back to Jesus' teachings.  We are not to judge our fellow man.  In addition, we should love the sinner, not the sin.  All of us are blemished by sin because none of us are perfect.  I'll get down off of my pulpit now.  Enough preaching!     

Thank you, CLANDERSON!!!!!  :clap :clap

GBPC:     Personally I would prefer that you leave the references to Clay being a "sinner" to conversations with people within your own faith.  I, too, espouse Christianity, and  find it unnecessary to throw that particular word around with such frequency.  To me it is on the same level as using the Lord's name in vain.

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION AND I KNOW IT IS NOT FOR EVERYONE--PLEASE SCROLL AT WILL


This has certainly been an interesting week in the Claynation.  Hopefully this week things can get back to normal (whatever that is).

Many of you have posted such wonderful stories about your real life experiences that I am sure have helped a lot of people just by seeing different points of view from actual experiences.  You are all to be commended for posting about very personal happenings in your lives.

I am sorry and understand that some of you are having a really hard time with this.  I hope that with time you will find some peace and will continue to be a Clay fan.  If not, I wish you all the best.

I want to say that so many times this week -- whether I was on the boards, reading the People magazine story, watching the TV coverage, etc. -- I have had tears in my eyes to the point that it was hard to read.  Were these tears of sadness and disappointment directed at Clay -- ABSOLUTELY NOT.   They were tears of pride for a man who had tried to live his private life in private but could not and decided he had to tell the truth for the best possible of reasons -- his newborn son, Parker.  Now that is the mark of a father who is putting his son first and foremost, regardless of the cost  to him.  To me that is the true MEASURE OF A MAN.

To me, Clay is still the same glorious singer, the same great humanitarian, the same very funny and witty man he was a month ago.  That is why I became a fan.  He never promised me that I could be part of his personal life, and while we all want to know everything we can about him, we are part of Clay’s life -- Clayton’s life is something we have no say about.   He does not have to tell us anything he is going to do before it happens -- he has told us this week (and many times before) that he loves us and appreciates our support and I really think he means it.

Clay has not missed a performance this week and I see that he did the SD again last night.  He is showing us he is trying to get on with his life and I think he is going to be just fine.  After all, he has a loving and supporting family (even if it is unconventional, by his admission) and he has old fans and hopefully many new fans.  This may be a good thing for him because the tabloids can’t make jokes at his expense any longer.  Hopefully, now that everything is out in the open, people will start to see what a great entertainer he is and take him seriously--and not just the brunt of jokes by cruel people. 

Jaymes said the best is yet to come -- and I think she probably knows what she is talking about.  I’m looking forward to it.

I wish Clay, Jaymes and Parker a wonderful life filled with much love, great health and immense happiness.  He deserves it.

He has given me so much happiness the last five years -- wonderful concerts, great friends, traveling and Spamalot -- and I plan to be here to support him for as long as I am able.

Oh my goodness, WILSON BARBARA, your post is a masterpiece!   :clap Thank you for saying what is in the hearts of so many of us.   :hugg :hugg :hugg

Thanks, Thea    :hugg

I have just watched Shelley's montage of Parker.  It is a real tear jerker. 

                                  CLAY HAS MY HEART. :hugg SEE YOU WHEN I GET HOME. I LOVE YOU ALL :hugg

Love you GLORY :hugg :hugg :hugg :hugg :hugg :hugg

Glory -- have a good trip

We'll be here when you get back

It would appear that many Christians do not understand the teachings of Jesus, either.

Agree. A little bit of knowledge is not necessarily a good thing in this case. The larger picture is required.  :smile

I totally agree. It is not our place to call ANYONE a sinner. We are not the ultimate decider.

I will probably be jumped on for this. But let me preface this with I totally believe in God and have inner conversations with him all the time. HOWEVER- the bible was written and interpreted by MAN and has gone through many translations through the ages-no one knows the EXACT words that were spoken back in the time of Jesus.
The main thing that I believe is that God loves us all and wants us to love one another, and treat one another with charity - and I see Clay doing that day after day, constantly.
He is a very brave and compassionate man for letting the OFC members (and trolls that invade) speak their minds.

I cannot see ANY Christianity in the some of the venom that has been spewed at that place from people who profess to be fans or even Christians. The slams at Jaymes in particular are not necessary. Although SOME may not agree with her posting, I found it to be wonderful how she came to his defense (even though we were ALL asked not to)

Clay, by his deeds over the past 5 years, has SHOWN many of us what I believe God wanted us to do- to reach out to those in distress and aid them- and most certainly, to turn the other cheek.

I KNOW he is only a man, and I KNOW he is far from perfect, but I sure do like the man he is!!

Sorry- it was all building up after reading the OFC-I had to state my feelings too!

I'm on my way to work today . . . I usually don't work on Sundays, but today I must.  I was not even going to take time to post, but, after reading so many heartfelt posts, I'm taking the time before I go to work.

GLORY  - Sincere hopes for you as you make some very important life decisions.  No matter what your address may be, you still will have your home at Claymaniacs . :hugg

BARBARA   (WilsonClaymate) - Your post was wonderful.  It reflects my feelings exactly. I  do not take lightly the feelings of those who feel betrayed by Clay. He obviously tried to live a secret.  He came to the conclusion that he could no longer hide the truth.  I refuse to believe that he "chose that lifestyle". 

Things would have been so much easier for Clay and for us if he was not gay.

Maybe WE would have been more comfortable if he continued to hid his sexuality . . . but he could carry that burden no longer  . . . especially after the birth of Parker.  So now, it is our choice as to how we handle this news and how it affects our fandom.

I respect those who are struggling because of their religious beliefs regarding homosexuality. There are no "quick fixes".  We all have our beliefs and our personal feelings. Personally, I am uncomfortable discussing religion online, but I feel that Clay is a caring, unselfish, christian young man, who happens to be gay.  We can't get inside of his head, but it seems he was very aware that many very good people would question his morals and would be conflicted about it.  I always hope that people can find peace and comfort in their religious beliefs.

I may be naive, but I am not concerned one bit that Clay's concerts will be different.  I think he will be the same talented, witty, snarky, and caring entertainer.  I think he will still interact the same way with Angela and Quianna and also his audience. After all, he is still Clay.

I didn't intend to write this post.  So much has already been said.  I just wanted to say that I, too, have had a rough week trying to process all that has happened.  It is so good that everyone has taken the opportunity to share their feelings and voice their opinions and concerns.  Everyone has to do what they feel is right for them.  For many, it may be a long process.  It is my hope that each fan will eventually find their comfort zone - no matter what their decision may be.

Being a Clay Aiken fan is one of the joys in my life and I have no qualms about my decision to stick around.  I love him and respect  him and I admire his courage.  I'm here for the long haul.

My post is not intended to try to convince anyone that my views are right.  They are just simply MY views.

STOPPING BY.  I MUST FIND THAT SD CLACK.  I GUESS THE CH HAS IT.  I HAVE BEEN VERY BUSY TRYING TO CATCH UP WITH FRIENDS AND COOKING.  NOW I MUST CLEAN AND DO SOME WASH.  OMG, CLAY COULDN'T HAVE COME OUT AT A WORSE TIME FOR ME.    :wink :para :bigsmile

WILSON BARB---JUST BEAUTIFUL.  I CANNOT WAIT TO GIVE YOU A HUG IN 2 1/2 WEEKS.  SO BEAUTIFUL.

AS WAS YOURS, WIS BARB.   :hugg :hugg  HOW LUCK AM I THAT I GET TO SEE SO MANY CLAYMANIACS THIS MONTH.  AND MARILYN, AND JOHANANA. ETC.  I COULD JUST GO ON AND ON.

I WAS TALKING TO JILL THIS MORNING AND SHE SAID SOMETHING WE SHOULD CONSIDER.  I NEVER READ THE SHOUT BOX.  I DON'T KNOW WHY, I JUST DON'T.  BUT SINCE MICHELLE POINTED OUT THAT THE ONE STUPID NEGATIVE POST CAME FROM THERE, MAYBE WE SHOULD ALL CHECK OUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN THAT SHOUT BOX AND IF SOMEONE WE DON'T REALLY KNOW IS POSTING NEGATIVELY, WE CAN ADD A COMMENT TO HAVE THAT POST GO AWAY.  I THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA SINCE WE HAVE A VERY SUPPORTIVE CLIMATE ON THIS BOARD.  SOMEONE WHO JUST SHOWS UP THIS WEEK SHOULD NOT BE IN THE MEDIA AS REPRESENTATIVE OF OUR BOARD.  WHAT DO YOU THINK?

GWENN

Marilyn wrote:
I realize I haven't posted in here for a long time, but I do lurk on occasion.  Marilyn....well said! 

As far as the trolls at the OFC, I'm not sure they are trolls.  Don't you have to be a member to post?  Jaymes....well I think that is a pretty divided topic.  I do think, on occasion, she crosses a line.  When Clay said let everybody speak their mind, and she comes in, and in a way, scolds people, I can see why some fans are offended.  However, I think the Jaymes bashing also crosses a line.

Okay.. that's it.  :wave to my friends.

These are my random thoughts.  They are in no order  :bduh

Here's my thought on Clay the entertainer ~ When he's on stage singing, dancing, or acting he should be the same as he's been in the past.  How he interacts with Quianna and Angela will be the true test. 

Don't get me wrong, I do want Clay to be happy.  And I did notice a glimpse of happiness in his eyes when he was talking to Diane Sawyer about finding someone for himself.  I hope he does.  I kind of sort of in a way feel bad for him.  If he's known that he was gay since college, he's deprived himself of a relationship.  And that to me makes me sad for him.  He's deprived himself of true happiness.

My whole struggle with this is based on how I perceived him.  I believed that he was straight.  I know that there were times in the past that I thought, wow, what he just did sure didn't look like a "straight" man would do, but I just never gave it much thought that he could actually be gay.  I know that I have no place in his personal life, and I do want him to be happy.  My problem is the actual thought of what goes on behind closed doors between two men, and that to me just makes me.  Okay, so maybe I'm not as eloquent as the rest of you, and I need to add to this when I have more quiet time instead of having SpongeBob SquarePants on in the background.  I don't even know if what I've said even makes any sense!     

 I know that he's said that he never actually came out and said one way or another that he was or was not gay.  This is the part that makes me angry.  I guess that I would have just handled it differently.  If someone asked me about my personal life and I didn't want to tell them about it, I wouldn't get mad or take offense I would have just said that my personal life is my personal life and I'm not going to talk about it.  In my mind Clay was taking offense to the questions about whether or not he was gay because he was constantly asked about his sexual preference.  Clay, IMO was getting asked the questions about his sexual orientation because he didn't act "straight".  Even when he repeatedly denied it, it was extremely obvious to me anyways that he certainly didn't act "straight".

I am also fighting with myself inside my head.  Which is never a good thing.  Part of me understands that if anyone is hurt emotionally by someone of the opposite sex, the temptation of wanting to be with someone of the same sex is very appealing.  I'm having trouble understanding how someone could just never be attracted to the opposite sex.  I certainly don't have that desire, and am just having a hard time understanding how someone could have that desire.

My other thing that i'm having trouble with is how Clay claimed to be a Christian and then now he's gay.  I just don't understand how you can be both.  I know that I'm in the minority and have been accused of being closed minded.  How could God ever not love a person who was gay.  God loves all people.  I would like to believe so, and I want to be accepting, but I'm just not there yet.  I get tired of how everything must be politically correct and let's not hurt anyone's feelings.  Please don't hate me.  It's just my religious belief that is giving me trouble digesting all of this.  My church says that it just can't be so.  You can not be a Christian and be gay.  That that is just an excuse to justify your behavior.  Please just let me vent.  I really need to get this out in the open so that I can sort through my feelings.

I just have to say that I love Claymaniacs.  I have been avoiding posting anything that I've been feeling for fear of being crucified over at the OFC.

Dave always says that I'm raising Nathan to be gay and Diana to be a tom boy! WHAT! Nathan is very kind and compassionate and has a very gentle soul.  Diana on the other hand will beat up her brother if given the chance when she gets older .

I just wanted to say that I may disagree with Clay's lifestyle and may not understand it.  But I didn't become a fan because he was "straight" or "gay."  I became a fan because I fell in love his voice, then his love of special needs children and now his humanitarian efforts.  What is done behind closed doors has nothing to do with why I became a fan.

I was thinking that now that we know that Clay is gay it makes the "chase" all that more appealling to me.  I always want what I can not have!

Now we need to arrange a meeting for him to meet Carson Kressley.  Clay doesn't need (Q ueer) Eye For the Straight Guy.  Clay needs (Q ueer) Eye For The Gay Guy .
Clay was trying too hard to "ungay" himself.  That man needs help.  Some of those outfits! Egads!

It is so great to be a member of this board and be able to say what we need to say without worrying about being reprimanded. There is so much respect for each other here. I think I'm glad I don't belong to OFC because I get too upset when I read anything really nasty about Clay.

I was online when the People magazine cover showed up and I immediately started to shake and cry. Silly, but my immediate reaction was that it would be the end of Claynation because so many believed Clay to be straight and the truth would be too much for many of them. Myself I wasn't really shocked, just surprised that it came out (no pun intended) so suddenly. I am so relieved that it seems like only a few will leave because of this and my heart goes out to those that cannot accept this for whatever reason. I guess their hero had feet of clay(also no pun intended. lol)

I guess its sort of a double-edged sword in that we were all hoping and praying to get introduced to Parker. Well we sure did get what we were hoping for. What a beautiful sweet little baby. Dad's pretty adorable himself.

JOHANN--THAT WAS INCREDIBLY SWEET.  I WISH WE COULD ALL MEET AT ONE TIME.  TOO MANY OF US, I GUESS.

BETH--IT MUST BE SO DIFFICULT FOR YOU.  BUT REST ASSURED, WHEN YOU SAID YOU DIDN'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT WHAT GAY MEN DO, HONEY, I HAVE BEEN THERE FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS.  I CANNOT EVEN GO THERE BECAUSE OF MY BROTHER.  IT JUST DOESN'T COMPUTE.  SO I DON'T GO THERE. 

JUST SAW THE SD VIDEO.  HE NEEDS TO LOOK LIKE THAT ON TV.  TAKE THOSE GLASSES OFF, CLAY.  YOU ARE SO HOT AND ADORABLE.  EMBRACE IT.

GWENN

If anyone is genuinely interested in why one person is "gay" and another is "straight," there are many books on the subject. As he alluded to in his interview with Diane Sawyer, Parker's sexuality will not be determined by Clay--"it's probably already up there in that code."

People don't "turn" gay, "get" gay, or "become" gay, just as they don't turn, get, or become straight. Our sexuality is part of our humanity, part of our makeup. It's not a result of someone hitting you or hurting your feelings. Human sexuality is far deeper and more complex than to be altered by the "direction of the breeze."

People don't choose to be one way or the other, they simply are. What people do choose is how to think, how to feel, and how to act.

Gwenn I've had a roller coaster of emotions this week.  It has really helped to just come here and say my thoughts out loud.  :hugg 

Pam, That was very insightful.  Thanks  :hugg

 :wave Good morning everyone. I am so pleased at the response to my video of little Parker - if you love little babies, this one's for you.  (link at bottom of this post)

Seeing Clay with his son....I am tearing up just even typing that line. Whew...What this poor young man has had to go thru with the way he was treated by his own father and step dad -- that alone would break a lesser man..and all the other things he shared in his book - wow. There is so much more he HASN'T shared that I bet Jaymes has been there for. And what a heart break it must be for her to see that struggle and be there for him and, yes I think she is absolutely in love with him, and no she can never share that one intimate moment with him., but she could have his son....what a story...

So I am going to check the other boards out and go take a loooong walk. It's been a loong few days....GWENN!  Happy New Year!

I love all of you and I love being a part of Claymaniacs. We calmly agree to disagree. The voices of reason are here on this board. My heart is bursting right now...

Shelley

On The Wings of Love - a video to celebrate little Parker Foster Aiken
http://www.sendspace.com/file/jlmp5k

Clay is going to be a spectacular father...
Seeing him and Parker on GMA made my mother (not a fan) and me cry! Hes going to give that child lots of love.
It takes a TRUE man to learn from life's experiences. With the childhood that Clay has had, I would expect for him to have a little bit of anger/hate inside him. But Clay is a forgiving, loving person. He is THE MAN!

-viki

Beth, I agree with all of this. I, too, have refrained from posting because I have been struggling and working through my own thoughts and feelings. I felt I was definitely in the minority because most everyone has seemed to be so accepting. I even emailed my old preacher (but haven't heard back) for clarification because after reading mostly "happy" and "supportive" posts, I thought maybe my beliefs were off-base.

I also still love Clay and will support him. That won't change. However, I do not support his decision to act on his sexual desires because I believe homosexuality is wrong. Of course I believe Clay is still a good person, but I want to know that I will see him in heaven. Right now, I don't know that I will, and that breaks my heart. 

I do love you all, and I'm sorry if I have offended anyone!  :hugg

I hope hes getting some time to rest!


-viki :hugg

Hi Nicole  :wave  :hugg

 :yes

NICOLE, I'm sure you will.  As I believe we probably  see Mother Theresa, Buddha and even Mohammed, even though they may have espoused a different belief system.   I wouldn't worry too much about Clay's eternal salvation at this point.  IMO  we each need to carve out our own path to Heaven, even though it may differ from what you yourself are accustomed to.   :hugg

Dont smileys say it all???
WUV YA!
-viki

I have one last thing to say about religion...

I was just reminded of something that my pastor once told us.  And he made it very simple for everyone to understand.  It doesn't matter what religion you are. 

Heaven = Life with God

Hell = Life without God


If you have God in your heart now, You will have God in your heart after you die. 

If you don't have God in your heart now, you won't have God in your heart after you die. 

After you die, it'll be too late.  The time is now.  

* I think Clay will be just fine!  :smile

Johanna - Thanks! I removed the post earlier this morning because I didn't think it added much to the conversation.  :hugg

PERFECTLY SAID.   :clap :clap :clap

I AM LEARNING A WHOLE LOT THIS PAST WEEK.  I GUESS, AS A JEW, WE DON'T DWELL ON AN AFTERLIFE AS MUCH AS BEING A GOOD PERSON IN THIS LIFE.  HE DON'T EVEN TALK ABOUT HELL.  I GUESS IT MAKES ALL OF THIS MUCH EASIER FOR ME BECAUSE I SEE CLAY AS SUCH AN INCREDIBLY GOOD MAN.  ORTHODOX JEWS ARE JUST AS AGAINST THE IDEA OF HOMOSEXUALITY AS ANY CONSERVATIVE RELIGION, BUT I DON'T KNOW ANY.  I WISH CLAY WEREN'T GAY JUST LIKE I WISH MY BROTHER WAS STRAIGHT.  WHO WANTS SOMEONE THEY LOVE TO HAVE A TOUGHER LIFE?  BUT I DO KNOW THAT I WANT EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THIS EARTH TO LOVE AND BE LOVED IN WHATEVER WAY THEY CAN. 

I AM INCREDIBLY PROUD OF THIS GROUP OF WOMEN HERE.  CLAY HAS ATTRACTED THE VERY BEST.

GWENN

 :clap :clap :notworthy :notworthy :yes :yes  :hugg :hugg

Wow! I am just amazed at how much my feelings are changing.  I am truly beginning to see how judgemental I have been in the past, and for that, I am truly sorry. 

What an amazing group of women we have here.  I am learning a lot!  :ghug2

 :word

SUNNY and GWENN!  OK, this is hopefully my last rant about this entire judgement issue.

 I continue to feel very frustrated with those who feel entitled to pass judgement on Clay because of his decision to come out. On a personal as well as a religious level,  I am not enamored with the gay lifestyle and esp. with all of the things associated with a physical relationship between gays.  I am very aware of the scriptures in the Bible as well as the teachings of my own Mormon faith about homosexuality;   however, I continue to maintain that it is not my place to pass judgement on Clay or to worry about his eternal salvation.  This is between him and his God.  Clay and Clay alone will have to work out his  salvation.  And being the good, faithful man that he is, I have no doubt that Clay is pondering this at this very moment.  I hope we will allow him to work this out on his own without making it even more difficult than it already is.

How can we do our part????  IMO we should not allow people to broadcast their personal values at concerts, Broadway shows, etc.  I hope I don't see any sweatshirts or banners, or hear from audience members any loud declarations one way or another about Clay's homosexuality.  Frankly, I'm not sure if I will be able to restrain myself from physically assaulting them.  Maybe my seatmates at future concerts should plan to bring some bail $$$$ for me just in case.  :lol

 :yes  :laugh

Meesa, I read your post earlier this morning and I thought it was very appropriate.  When it's important to you, it is important enough to post.     :clap      :clap

Gwenn and Sunny ~ Very, very well said.  You speak for me here.  (I am not Jewish but I wish I were.  I ascribe to their general philosophy of life, I just don't think I would fit into the culture very well.)

Medical personnel put homosexuality into the category of normal variations.  Like left handedness or color blindness. 

What it is not is any kind of mutation or accident of nature.  It is multifactorial.

BETH, thank you for appreciating my feeble attempts at humor.l  :hugg

       

MEESA, I agree with WILSON BARB.  But I understand when you do delete your posts.  It's usually when you feel nobody has responded, right?  Been there, done that!  But I can say with some assurity that here on Critical Mass, at least,  posts are not intentionally ignored.   It seems our posts here often get "lost in the shuffle".  And also....I know it's human nature, but sometimes people get into habits of scrolling over particular people's posts.  I sometimes feel I'm on the "D List" of Critical Mass posters, while I know that SUNNY and GWENN are on the "A List"!   :lmao  It is what it is!!!  Eventually somebody will take note of what you so carefully and passionately posted , and then you will feel a whole lot better.

Hope some advice from this old lady helps you, if only a little.   :hugg

P.S.  I wish there were some sort of "counseling" available for those of us who feel like "D-list posters"!    :lol

Meesa, I must agree to what Thea and Johanna have said.  You are important to us, and so are your posts/thoughts  :hugg. 

Meesa ~ I read your post this morning and I felt it was very thoughtful and honest and I wish you would put it back up because it might help some people who are struggling with their feelings about remaining a fan in light of their religious convictions.

I have noticed your absence lately and was hoping that your spirit wasn't crushed by all this and your post was a relief to me.  Maybe others felt the same.

I personally wish that no one would delete any posts ever.  Just because one expresses their specific feelings at a given point in time does not commit them to those feelings at a later date.  Discussion is part of learning and we can't discuss what has been deleted. (At least not very well.  :lol  Especially if that person doesn't want to discuss it.  Oh, you know what I mean.)


ETA ~ just cuz your post doesn't get a response right away doesn't invalidate it.  You may get a response later, especially in the evening when more people are here and catching up.  Or lurkers may connect with it.  Sometimes several topics of conversation are going on simultaneously and people are focusing on that.  Sometimes people don't agree with the poster but respects their opinion and just don't want to make an issue of it.  Everyone's post is valuable.

I do not mean to come across as passing judgement on Clay. It is not my job to pass judgement on anyone. Only God has that authority. I have just tried to share my own beliefs, not judge Clay. If anyone feels like I have judged Clay, that is never my intention.

I also feel frustrated. I do not profess to be perfect or know everything about salvation (God said we aren't supposed to understand everything). I am concerned about Clay, but his salvation is between him and God.

I have seen some who have said that Clay and the word sin don't go together. IMO, that is simply not right. Clay is a sinner. I am a sinner. We are all sinners! In God's eyes, one sin is not worse than any other.   

Thea, you are definitely not on the "D" List.  Your posts are always informative, timely and appreciated.  Right now, particularly, I think everyone's opinion is needed very much because it may help others who are dealing with the same thoughts.

If most people are like I am, I read all posts but don't necessarily respond to each and every one because I may not have anything new to add at that time.  Some nights when I get home from work, I may be simply too tired to think of anything to say that night -- I'm sure Meesa can relate to this.

I hope most people continue to post and hope that no one feels ignored.

Hi Nicole  :wave I'm sorry you are feeling so conflicted.  Wish there were something I could do to help you.

The God I know is a loving God.  Clay loves this God, and I truly believe God loves him too.  Just the way he is.  I fully expect to see Clay in heaven one day.  Just my belief.  Clay has God in his heart and that is truly all that matters.

NICOLE, I am one of those people who have said that "Clay and the word sin don't go together".  I acknowledge that none of us (least of all me) is perfect here on earth. Yes, you profess that "Clay is a sinner", and that you, yourself, are a "sinner".   However, maybe not everybody of other other faiths believes we are all sinners in God's eyes. IMO that is a dangerous assumption  that we should be very cautious in making here on a "secular" Board.  

 Accordingly to my personal beliefs, there has only been one perfect being, that being Jesus Christ.    I just don't feel comfortable using terminology that is particular to a certain faith (i.e. "sinners" in the Evangelical faiths) in a general discussion about Clay Aiken or any other human being.  All faiths have their own "jargon".  Please, let us not assume that we are on the same page with these words.  For instance, in my church we don't dwell on the fact that people are "sinners";  rather we dwell on how we can  work on becoming better human beings through a continuing process.  We believe that we need to overcome as many flaws as possible and to become as Christ-like as we can during our brief sojourns here on earth.   In that vein, I am not comfortable in telling Clay that acting out his homosexual urges is "not Christ-like".  I have no business doing so.

I am stating my personal beliefs only to remind you that people of different faiths have different ways of looking at life and whatever is beyond our life on earth.  I hope and pray you will take my remarks in the kind spirit I hope I am stating them.

.  

OK, THEA, YOU ARE RIGHT UP THERE WITH ME AND EVERYONE ELSE.  WE ARE ALL A-LISTERS.  LORD KNOWS NO ONE HERE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYONE ELSE.  MEESA---I DIDN'T SEE YOUR POST BUT I WOULD LIKE TO.  I AM ON AND OFF HERE ALL DAY HAVING TO CLEAN IN BETWEEN.  I HATE IT.

GWENN

  :word

Gwenn - I have been here far too long today so I have got to get up and get something done also. 

Just so I don't forget to say so --  I hope you, your family and friends have a very happy Holiday.

Gwenn - don't you ever stop cleaning????    :lmao

Thanks, BARBARA!  And hey, it's fun being on the D list.  I find I have the opportunity to go back and edit my posts (which always need re-editing  :para) before somebody actually reads this.    :lol  

No, all kidding aside, I understand the scenario of not being able to respond to everybody's post.  And to be working all day and then coming on to such fast-paced discussions as we've been having lately on CM, it's commendable that you can think of anything to say!!!

LORI,  I agree with you when you say "The God I know is a loving God".  Beautiful stated.  My feelings exactly.  



GWENN, I know.  I have felt loved and appreciated here since I returned as a "CM full-timer" just a few short months ago.  :hugg :hugg :hugg 'Just my usual flippant brand of humor!  :wink

 :lmao   LORI. Actually,  I have a feeling GWENN has much higher standards of home cleanliness than I do.   :lol

NO, THEA.  I DON'T.  I HAVE A HUSBAND WHO IS HERE 24/7 AND 2 DOGS WHO SHED NONSTOP.  WHEN BARRY AND I WORKED FULL TIME, I NEVER SPENT MY TIME CLEANING.  I HAD A CLEANING PERSON EVERY 2 WEEKS.  VACUUMED THE DEN AND KITCHEN IN BETWEEN.  BUT BARRY HAS BEEN BAKING AND I HAVE BEEN COOKING AND THE DOGS ARE ALWAYS SHEDDING.

WILSON BARB--THANK YOU.   :hugg :hugg :hugg

GWENN

And goodness knows, we need humor much of the time   :yes

The God I know is also a loving God. But there are rules to follow, and when we ask for forgiveness, that means we are supposed to be sorry and turn away from whatever we asked forgiveness for.

Dev, I appreciate your kind spirit, and I hope you have taken my comments in the same way. And you're right -- my comments have been based on Christianity, not all faiths, and maybe I should have been more clear on that. It is obvious that we all interpret things differently, even for those of us who say we are Christians.

I appreciate everyone's opinions, and I hope you all feel that I value your opinion. I may just not agree with it.  :hugg

Back to lurking! 

I find it so refreshing that women can discuss such a variety of topics, disagree on them, yet remain civil and friendly. People have said it couldn't be done. They obviously didn't know the caliber of women we have here at Claymaniacs. A big :ghug2 to you all. This board is a moderator's dream. :lol

Interestingly enough I received a recipe in my inbox recently. Since we all know everything is better with chocolate I'm going to share it here:


I just tried it and it really does work! I didn't have any cocoa so I used chocolate milk mix :lol and it still came out ok! It DOES rise about 2 inches straight up from the mug :para in the microwave but as soon as the microwave shuts off it sinks back to only 1/2 an inch above the rim.

Thanks for all the responses. I didn't really intend for it to be that way, but I do feel like anything I post isn't worth much. By the time I get home from working 13-16 hours and catch up, not many people are on and I'm just saying the same things others have said.

That being said, I am looking forward to seeing so many of you in a little over a few weeks. The past month or so has been a rather difficult one for me and I am looking forward to getting away from it all and spending time with friends and of course, Clay. Then I have a few more weeks after that to work on my dates for WFI and getting volunteers for this year and then I'm off to NY to visit Marilyn and see Clay before wrapping starts. PuddinsJoy and I had business cards made for our local BAF chapter, Kansas Kares, and we're hoping having them on the table will attract more shoppers to inquire about the BAF.

Here's the e-mail I received last night that was in the deleted post. My co-worker sent it to me yesterday and she's always teased me (not trying to be mean) about my devotion to Clay and my traveling.



I responded :

MEESA--I LOVE WHAT SHE SAID BUT I LOVE WHAT YOU SAID MORE.  I AGREE WITH EVERY SINGLE WORD OF YOUR POST.

GWENN

I AM CHANGING THE SUBJECT. 

i AM WONDERING IF RCA WOULD GO FOR ANOTHER ROUND OF PROMO FOR THE CD NOW THAT CLAY MIGHT BE ABLE TO BE MORE HONEST ABOUT SOME OF THE SONGS.  I HATE TO THINK OF THIS GLORIOUS CD AS DEAD.  WHAT DO YOU THINK?

GWENN

Gwenn and Clayharmony -- I keep waiting for RCA to take this amazing lead and run with it...  (I don't think it needs to have to do with Clay's take on, or honesty about, any songs though -- not everyone will be as interested in the story as in the music for its own sake.)

I think there is enough interest, from people wondering what it is about this singer that makes him so popular, to make them interested in hearing something from him -- or giving him another listen if they'd lost interest in the past.  "Everything I Don't Need" may not be my favorite song on the CD, but I think it showcases Clay's amazing talents the best -- although other songs may have much more potential to become widely popular ear worms -- "Sacrificial Love" comes immediately to mind.  (I think posters have said Clay wants "Ashes" released.) 

I just hope that RCA doesn't squander this fantastic opportunity.  The PR is already out there --  they just have to get the songs and the singer out to the public.  On netscape.com, Clay's still coming right up there in the main opening box.  And look how Kelly Clarkson's popularity was furthered by use in films -- "The Trouble With Love" -- capturing international recognition for her.  There are so many great film possibilities in On My Way Here.

Regardless, I think we're gonna see some good movement -- dowloads and CD sales.

This article is quite good. Covers a lot of ground unlike many others.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-belonsky/why-clay-aikens-coming-ou_b_129331.html

 :wave I am having trouble keeping up - trying to read and then post too is just too much!

I love all you ladies....and I decided a few minutes ago to send a card to the cast and crew of Spamalot. I want them to know that they are appreciated. If anyone wants to read what I wrote, let me know and I will post it.

Back to lurking....which most you know I really don't do!

Shelley

PS  Clay did SD at the matinee today.

Shelley~ Inquiring minds want to know.


 :cheer2 for SD    :purpbana :purpbana

You asked for it!



09/28/08

To the cast and crew of Broadway’s SPAMALOT:

Thank you.

The members of Claynation have lavished praise upon our Brave Sir Robin since his triumphant return to your fine city this past week; sending him many gifts of baskets of fruit, candy, cards, flowers and balloons (personally I think the man needs real food and we should’ve just sent him hundreds of boxes of Mac and Cheese) – I digress.

It is obvious from the first moment Clay Aiken stepped foot on your stage way back when – and now again – that his fans would follow. What we did not expect was the warmth we have been received from YOU.

Not only from the box office and ticket takers but the house management and the crew, but you, Clay’s fellow actors. Your outpouring of welcome and support for us has not been overlooked.  Yes, yes, Clay got all the goodies – and I assume he has spread all that edible love around – but we as fans have also gotten “the goodies” too by your incredible presentation and obvious love while performing the funniest show on Broadway.

I may not be the first fan to do this, but even if I am, please know that we in Claynation appreciate you and we know that you have been there for Clay in this very interesting moment in his life right now. And for that we are eternally grateful.

So you may not receive the outward gifts that we have lavished on our favorite guy, but may I tell you that you are loved – because you are!

As we say in cyberspace, this post may travel.

I blow kisses in your general direction….

Shelley Anderson
aka luluasst

(I flew out from the west to the east for opening night – damn this is a funny show)

 :clap :clap Good for you Shelley..Very well written.

Thanks on behalf of the Claynation..

Marlene

You're welcome. I really wanted to say Claymaniacs but I didn't want it to be taken the wrong way!  :lol

Lindsay -- Thanks for the new banner -- AWESOME

In response to the CD.  I was wondering the same thing too.  I had not been in our Target for several weeks and when I was there yesterday what I saw surprised me.

1.  Clay's Musicpass cards were prominently displayed on the end of a row with the others -- But in the 1st position.

2.  Over under his name they had several of his CDs and in the slot below that was another stack of Musicpass cards.

It may be completely coincidental but we can only hope.


Michelle:  Thanks for the cake recipe.  Since I live alone I have no business making a cake because I would feel like I had to eat it all rather than waste it.  Now I can make a little cake to satisfy a craving.    :bigsmile

Shelley:  Thanks for the card to the cast of Spamalot.  I am sure Clay will appreciate that too.

 :wow  WILSON BARB!  That is a big step forward in marketing Clay.  I'll have to go check out our dinky little Target tomorrow!  Thanks for the info!

SHELLEY, great letter.  I'm hoping Clay himself will read it!   :cross

Back later hopefully to read a bit more.

Thanks all. I mentioned "post my travel" because there is usually a company bulletin board at most theatres and I am hoping it is posted there for all to read.

It was my pleasure. Glad you like it. :smile


So very, very true. :clap

I've enjoyed reading everyone's posts. It's so nice to have a place where people feel free to express their opinions and emotions. :ghug

Shelley ~ Thanks for not saying I fart in your general direction. 



Lindsay ~ Beautiful banner.  Thanks.

Last week he was just some geeky kinda guy who was different and sang syrupy songs.

This week he's gay and suddenly the world thinks he's totally cool. :scratch

He's the same guy he was last week (well, maybe he's happier  :smile) yet the world's perception of him changed with one simple little word.

 :roflmao  I SOOOOOOOOOOO THOUGHT ABOUT IT!!!

THINGS ARE QUIET HERE.  I AM GLAD.  WE ALL NEED A BREAK. 

MOST OF MY DINNER IS COOKED.  WILL FINISH IN THE MORNING AND THEN FINISH THE CLEANING.  YES, CLEANING.  I WAIT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE TO DO MY DEN BECAUSE OF THE DOG HAIR.   :wink :lol

SO. CLAY DID THE SD AT MATINEE.  I ASSUME HE WILL TONIGHT.  THINGS SEEM MORE NORMAL FOR HIM ALSO.

I HOPE THOSE STRUGGLING ARE DOING BETTER. :hugg

MICHELLE--YOUR POST JUST CRACKED ME UP.  SO TRUE.  GEE, HE SHOULD HAVE COME OUT DURING On My Way Here PROMO.  WOULD HAVE SOLD A TON MOE CD'S I BET. :wink :bigsmile

GWENN

Just dropping in...read a few pages..

as Clay has said about  persons with disabilities..

You identify the person FIRST, the disability second"


From the BAF website

I am in NO WAY identifing homosexualilty as a disabilty for goodness sake..

simply saying that Clay is first and anything you identify him with is second.

so..he is not a "Gay Man"  he is a man with Gayness.. :smile

Just trying to be a bit lighthearted here.

he is just Clay to us.

It's Ok.

He doesn't have to be anything more to me, or less, for that matter, since he has allowed himself to allow US to identify with him on an even more personal level.

A level playing field now.

We can like what he does or not, without question. We can like what he says, or not, without question. At least not THAT question...

We can like his music or not, just as before.
We can speculate all day about words to his songs, his favorite color, what weird form of clothing he is going to be wearing...

it's NO different than before but he has shared even more now.

And it still is not going to change our views on any of the subjects above that were chewed over and over again...just as before.

I just don't see why it has to.

Lora

I agree Michelle & Gwenn...it would have been interesting to see the difference in album sales had he announced he was gay before hand.

Michelle, I agree he is the same guy he was last week, he's a lot happier.We his fans just
 know a lot more about him.

He's the same guy I loved since I first saw & heard him on AI2.

 :hypno :hypno :hypno Very true, MICHELLE.  I've stopped trying to figure all of this out. 

  LORA, amazing post.   :clap

MIMI,  :clap :hugg

Time for a nice bubble bath.  I wish I could just "wash that man right outta my hair".  Life would be a lot less stressful.  But not as much fun!!!

Amazing, isn't it? How many times have we seen posts with - "I wish others could see what we see" - in them? And now .... Craziness.  :lol

I think I may have caused a bit of controversy earlier today, and I wanted to say I'm sorry for that!

I mentioned earlier that I was concerned about Clay and whether or not he would go to heaven because of being homosexual. I think my mind has been stressed and working overtime the past week because my logic hasn't been working correctly. Maybe it was a case of not being able to see the forest for the trees. I don't know. However, after continuing to talk about this with two close friends (one a fan and one not), I realized that what I had said and thought didn't make sense based on Christian beliefs and principles. I do believe that as a Christian, anyone who accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is going to heaven. I believe Clay has done that (because he said so); therefore, I agree with the rest of you that Clay is going to heaven. I wish I had "come to my senses" before posting, but...... :hypno :bduh :bang.

I'm not going to say anymore, but I did want to post this especially for those I may have offended earlier.         

NICOLE, although we most definitely differ in our religious beliefs, I did not take offense in the least from your comments.  It's taken me a long time to come to the point where I realize that when somebody disagrees with you, it's not necessarily because they don't like you or are rejecting you as an individual.  Please know that I have not been offended, and if I have come on too strong with my arguments and "talking points", I apologize.  I am very aware of my flaws and imperfections, and I continue to strive to overcome them.  But it is a very long, slow and arduous process.   :wink

On that note, I just want you to know that I appreciate your "putting yourself out there" to add to this discussion.  Isn't there some saying about "A life unexamined is a life not worth living"?  If so, I can honestly say that as long as I live and breathe here on this earth, I will continue to question and strive to further understand what life is all about. 

 :hugg
Thea

NICOLE ~  :hugg

You don't owe an apology to anyone.  AND you are entitled to your opinions.  From the beginning, I have known you to be a kind and caring person.  

That has not changed.  None of us know for sure who is right and who is wrong.  We just know that we care about Clay and about each other!  

Don't be a stranger.  It is always good to see a post from you!  :hugg :hugg

 :lol :lol :lol

Thea, I wasn't trying to point you out, and I certainly don't think you were the only one who disagreed with me. Although I hate confrontation, I'm actually glad you did disagree because you made me examime my own beliefs. That's how I realized I was wrong.

Thank you for caring.  :hugg


 :wave :hugg back to you.

Thank Goodness Someone got it!!

I was almost afraid to post it..but its the Maniacs...

Have a great night Sunny..

Lora

I love it! :lol :thumb

Interesting idea, Dev. But one of the things I think some folks are struggling with is that "people with gayness" are pretty much like "people without gayness." :wink

I think the reason the discussion about sin is appropriate is because Clay is a Christian.  Even though there are others on the board who are not, it should help everyone understand why Clay's Christian fans are feeling more hurt than other fans.  It also explains the anguish he must have felt in coming to grips with being homosexual and coming out.  I know this has not been easy on him.  Has anyone else mentioned that this could have been the reason for the Paxil?  
  
We did not have a normal Sunday School lesson today.  The discussion was all about Clay. By the way, this is a couple's class.  I was expecting to really take a hit because they know I have traveled everywhere to see and HEAR Clay.  I have even purchased CDs for my Sunday School teacher (a man) and several of the woman in the class.  I was pleasantly surprised to hear that everyone was so supportive of my feelings.  

P.S.  One of the guys mentioned that James Dobson has support materials for gays who do not want to be gay.  Has anyone else ever heard of this?  

Maybe I lost my sense of humor, but I will never use a "gayness" emoticon on a Clay Aiken website. 

LORA - I loved your play on words and also saying that Clay is first, and anything you define him with is second.  :clap

When I think of Clay, I still think of the HOT and the WOW emoticons.   Sorry, if I sound protective.  :para

I found this quote earlier on CV:

"I'm not different- I am not different at all. The wrapping is different, but the gift is the same"- Clay Aiken

Any idea when he said this?

That was early on, mimi. I think it was in reference to the "makeover" he got on AI.

Thanks Sunny!

 :doh SUNNY, yet another reason I should limit my posting after about 9:00.  I wasn't thinking clearly  and unfortunately a flippant comment came across in the wrong way.  Yikes, put a cork in it, Dev.  It's been a very llloooonnnngggg day.

Thank you for responding to my post in a kind, nonjudgemental manner.  You are a good friend.   :hugg

You're welcome!

And what a gift it is, huh? :bigsmile

It was just my opinion. I'm not saying to do it or not do it. :shrug


--to a good friend. :wink :hugg

Truly, SUNNY.  One of my definitions of a friend is somebody who helps you to become a better person.  You are one of those people for many here on the Board.  

I JUST LOVE THIS PLACE.   :ghug2 :ghug2 :ghug2  Sure wish some of the people over at the OFC would get it too.  Clay is still the same person he was a week ago, we just know more about him now. His life is his responsibility and our lives our our own responsibility.  I am so moved by how the people have been working through their own issues or being comforting to others who are perhaps having a harder time handling the news than others.  Thanks to everyone here for making this place a safe one to just be who we are.

Debbie

This is true. Any "different feelings" come from within us--not from Clay.




Amen! :thumb

DEBBIE - That sentence says so very much!  May I use it whenever the occasion arises?  :hugg

SUNNY - Glad you "quoted" it.  I almost missed it.  :smile

I  just read the back pages...I think if Clay wanted to, he could be booked on all the talks shows again, sing and then talk about the baby and...the people article

Bingo, MS DEBBIE.  


Hopefully that's just what will be happening, MARLENE.  It will be interesting to see what unfolds over the coming weeks!!!
'Night, all!   :ghug2

EDIT:
WHOOPS, sorry MIMI2, I was confusing you with MARLENE/MIMI.  IMy mind is shot!  really do need to catch some zzzzzz's now...............

I am glad Clay is at stage door.  He seems to even be a little MORE friendly with the fans-I am jealous :blush. 

I wanted to mention something to Gwenn. Nikki- the girl who had the purse signed by everyone and just needed Clay to sign it, and who was going to sell it on ebay for more Spam tickets- has announced at the OFC that she is going to give it to Clay to auction off at the Gala. Every one is complimenting her on doing this. I thought that was extremely funny because it was GWENN'S idea in the first place!!

On Tuesday before we went to Spamalot, I posted that the "MY Story" would be interesting WHATEVER it was about. I don't know if I had a "premonition" or what, but something was in the back of my mind. When Gwenn got the phone call and told me the news, I got a chill- because this is almost exactly what went through my mind. Other than that strangeness, I was and am at peace with the news. I have never been one to castigate others for their beliefs, ways of life, etc (except wife and children beaters- then its no holds barred).

My mother taught me to be charitable to others. She would give her last loaf of bread if it meant someone else would benefit by it. Thats just how she was-she helped many many people throughout her life. And do you know what is ironic? She was an agnostic! Was brought up in the Church of England (very strict) and went to church a couple of times a day. After we children were older, she left the church. She could not find any pastor who really moved her or any church that she could commit to. But she lived her life the way she thought was right- and I try to emulate her.
So in essence- I believe that Clay sets a good example of what a person should be and do. I have never met a more compassionate person, and wise in ways I don't even understand. I don't doubt for a minute that he already has his place in heaven when the time comes. Someone on another board said she thinks that when he eventually gets there, God will say "Good job, son"- and that picture warms my heart.

And I NEVER talk about religion usually, so please forgive me. I just needed to explain my feelings. I am done now (and arent you happy about that?)

On to other topics:

I watched the stage door video last night- did anyone else want to fix his collar?  :lol :lol I just wanted to reach into that video and straighten it out. Of course, then Jerome would have straightened ME out

Maybe. But I got the impression he didn't want to come out and make a grand announcement about being gay. :shrug

Of course, whatever he does, some people will find something negative to say--like, that he was "using" his baby to sell CDs. (Some at the OFC have already offered up that theory.) :hypno

Thea ~ the quote was from Mimi2, Liz

I'm just plain old Mimi.


Marlene

MARILYN--- THANKS FOR TELLING ME THAT.  I AM GLAD NIKKI IS DOING THIS.  I SAW HER IN THE SD VIDEO FROM LAST NIGHT AND SMILED.  I FIGURED SHE WOULD GET THAT FINAL SIGNATURE.  I HOPE SOMEONE BUYS IT.

THE MORE I THINK OF CLAY, THE MORE I FEEL LIKE HE IS AT PEACE AND VERY HAPPY.  THERE ARE FOLKS AT THE SD.  HE ISN'T ABANDONED.  PARKER IS WELL AND MOST ARE COMING TO GRIPS WITH THE ISSUE.

IF WE GET TO SEE MORE OF CLAY ON TV, I WILL BE HAPPY.  IF MORE FOLKS GIVE THIS AMAZING CD A CHANCE, THEN I AM HAPPY.

IF I HAD A MAID TO CLEAN UP AFTER 14 PEOPLE TOMORROW, I WOULD BE HAPPY.   :bigsmile

GWENN

This gala is going to be awesome! Many people have donated things.  :clap

I had to check back in here and catch up. I've been watching a special on the New Kids on the Block on VH1. ( :wave Linds!) They were my first big crush. I was so in love with Jordan. Fun times!  :lol I still rock out to their greatest hits  :slick

I'm loving seeing Spamalot SD clack again. I missed it!

I love this, Marilyn. And I wish I could have known your mom. She sounds like my kinda woman. :hugg

 :thud Thank you dancerdad!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/KSChristian4Clay/th_ClaySep28-1-2copy.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/KSChristian4Clay/ClaySep28-1-2copy.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/KSChristian4Clay/th_ClaySep28-1copy.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/KSChristian4Clay/ClaySep28-1copy.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/KSChristian4Clay/th_ClaySep28-2copy.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/KSChristian4Clay/ClaySep28-2copy.jpg)

Oh my goodness, do I see his Cary shirt,or is it the Asheville one?

Just look at those shoulders   :wow  See he's still got IT girls, because i don't know about you ,but I still think

he's  :hot2

OMG Meesa!! He looks wonderful!!!

Sunny- My mom would have loved your sense of humor!!

He is not a bad-looking man. :slick

YEP, MARLENE, HE IS HOT AS HELL AND ALWAYS WILL BE.  SHOULDERS TO DIE FOR.  AND NO GLASSES.!!!!!  WHEN I THINK OF CLAY, THIS IS WHO I VISUALIZE. 

I LOVE THAT HE IS FEELING FREER.  I LOVE THAT THE SD GROUPS ARE GETTING THEIR CHANCE.  I GUESS HE HAD SOMEWHERE TO GO LAST NIGHT SINCE HE WAS DRESSED.

GWENN

He looks good ... darn good!  :bigsmile

mimi - :giggle I can't believe I remember this, but it's definitely the shirt (or one very similar) from Asheville.

:wave Meesa! I was watching that special as well.  :bouncy

I finally got to watch Paula Deen. She did not tell him to rub his meat! :para

She did, didn't she? :blush :lol

OH YES SHE DID.  AND NO ONE REACTED.  I THOUGHT IT WAS A RIOT.

GWENN

I liked his expression when he asked what channel this was on!!  :lol
Those pictures from stage door are absolutely wonderful. What a compelling look in that one- his eyes are mesmerizing!!

It seems this morning at least our little CM community is more at peace than we have been for a while,  What a breath of fresh air to come on this morning not feeling much angst!

I would like to take this time to wish our Jewish friends a very joyful and peaceful Rosh Hashanah (sp?) and Yom Kippur season.  I can honestly say that when I was in high school the people who were kindest and most accepting of me (being the nerd/geek that I was) were a group of Jewish kids.  (One named "Romi" another named "Howie", another named "Myra"!--  :lol )  One time they even invited me to a dance at their synagogue in town, but unfortunately my old-school Greek parents wouldn't allow it.   :bduh

Anyway, blessings and joy to you this time and always.  :hugs

Off to start my day.  Have a good one! 

I AM THINKING IT IS QUITE IRONIC THAT CLAY HAS CHOSEN TO COME OUT AT THIS TIME OF YEAR.  IN THE JEWISH COMMUNITY---THANKS THEA BTW :hugg--THIS IS THE MOST HOLY TIME.  THE TIME YOU ASK TO BE INCLUDED IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FOR ANOTHER YEAR.  THE TIME YOU ARE TO USE FOR INTROSPECTION ON YOUR PAST YEAR AND WHERE YOU WANT TO GO ON THE NEXT ONE IF GOD GRANTS YOU THE NEXT YEAR.  IT IS A TIME TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS FOR TRANSGRESSIONS AND A TIME TO ASK TO BE A BETTER PERSON.  IT IS A HIGHLY PERSONAL TIME.  I WONDER IF CLAY KNOWS THIS.  I WONDER IF HE WILL GO TO A ROSH HASHUNNAH DINNER TONIGHT SINCE MIKE NICHOLS IS JEWISH.  I AM FEELING VERY PENSIVE TODAY.

GWENN

Thank you for explaining your holidays, GWENN.  :hugg  You have certainly been getting a megadose of Christianity this week, so I think it's wonderful that we have the opportunity to learn a little bit more about your Jewish faith.  And based on personal experience, "feeling pensive" is a very good thing.  If more people would take the time for a little bit more soul-searching and introspection, I personally believe this world would be a much, much better place right now.

I would love to think that Clay would be attending a Rosh Hashunnah dinner this evening.  He is a very deep, respectful man who embraces other cultures (based on his world humanitarian efforts).  And I think he would look very handsome in a yamika (sp?).   :wink

Gwenn, Marion, and anyone else celebrating, I wish you all a blessed holiday!

THANKS MICKI AND THEA. :hugg :hugg :hugg

NOW ONTO A TOTALLY SHALLOW POST.

SO MUCH FOR GAY STEREOTYPES.  LET'S LOOK AT CLAY'S TASTE OR LACK OF TASTE IN CLOTHES.  HE NEEDS TO PURGE HIS CLOSET OF SO MANY ITEMS.  SOMEWHERE I READ THAT CARSON FROM superstar EYE NEEDS TO GET A HOLD OF HIM. OR TYRA.  NOW, I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT HE HAS SOME NEW THINGS THAT ARE GREAT LIKE THOSE AMAZING SWEATERS FROM SPAM 1.  BUT THAT GREEN ONE.  THE FRAYED CARGO SHORTS.  THE FUGLY JACKET FROM THE IT. TONS OF CLOTHES FROM THE NAT.  YEP.  THEY HAVE TO GO.  WE ALL KNOW HE RECYCLES ALL THE TIME.  MUST GET THIS STUFF AWAY FROM HIM.  IF HE IS TO BE GAY IN NYC, THEN HE MUST DRESS THE PART. 

AND TAKE OFF THOSE GLASSES.  I HAVE SEEN HIM IN GLASSES ENOUGH NOW FOR A LIFETIME.  FIRST LAST CHRISTMAS AND NOW THE PIX AND GMA.  ENOUGH.  LOOK AT HOW MUCH BETTER HE LOOKS AT THE SD THAN IN THE PEOPLE PIX. 

JMHO

GWENN

I just had an email from my niece who is in her first year of college.   When Clay comes out with a new CD I send it to her everytime.  She loves his voice too.  Well, she wanted to know if there was anything new with Clay  :lmao  Boy did I have an earful for her!!   :bigsmile

Gwenn, I think Clay looks totally amazing in the People pictures, and he looked great in the GMA interview!  The best he's looked in a long time, IMO.  The clothes?   Clay was never a "fashion plate", and if he's confortable in his cargo shorts, that's fine.  I don't think "looking the part of a gay man" is what he's all about.  Or, it shouldn't be.  And, Carson Kressley......God forbid!

Whoever made the banner......FABULOUS!!!! 

MICKI---I WAS JUST TRYING TO BE FUNNY.  AIN'T NEVER HAPPENING.  BUT I GUESS IT DIDN'T COME OFF AS FUNNY.  AND AS FOR THE GLASSES, THAT WAS DEADLY SERIOUS.    BUT THAT ISN'T NEW. :hugg

GWENN

Gwenn,   :hugg Back at ya!   :lol

He did. His look to the camera was great! :lol

Something spicy. :wink

Don't know if this has been posted yet.....more info on Parker's surgery.


http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20229066,00.html

HES HE DID.  BUT THE AUDIENCE DIDN'T.  THAT WAS WEIRD.  I LOVED THAT LOOK.

GWENN

4 weeks old. Oh my gosh, Clay must have been out-of-his-mind worried!

That poor baby. Both of them.

I did a little Baby Parker montage


On the Wings of Love
http://www.sendspace.com/file/jlmp5k

You know, it amazes me how wonderful this board has been about the news. Nothing vicious, nothing hateful. Those that have issues have stated so in a respectful manner. I am overwhelmed by all of you. I wish Clay could read THIS thread and find peace in his heart that THESE fans support him the way he deserves.

Oh wait, I may have to revise a couple of my posts if he reads here- um, maybe MORE than a couple.

You folks are the BEST!!

It must have been totally scary.  That video on GMA of him with Parker was heart warming. He so loves that little guy. I will bet he misses him like crazy until they join him in October.

All this baby talk .... I just love babies! I held Payten for a long time yesterday.

Speaking of babies, my cousin announced she's having a baby in April. It will be her first. She's planning on it being a boy. I wonder why?  :lol

That must have been terrifying for Clay. Babies are so helpless, but I can tell he and Jaymes are great parents.  :clap

I wish a very blessed holiday to our Jewish friends celebrating today.  :hugg

Back to work. I'll try to catch up late tonight.

I've been away from the boards for a few days, and upon reading back, I have to say the understanding and compassion from the members of this board amazes me!  Clay would be so proud!  I am!

OMG.  I CANNOT IMAGINE HOW HE AND JAYMES WERE ABLE TO FUNCTION.  I WOULD HAVE BEEN OUT OF MY MIND.  THESE 2 HAVE STARTED THEIR LIFE AS A "FAMILY" IN A VERY DEEPLY PERSONAL WAY.  HAVING A CHILD THE WAY THEY DID AND THEN THEIR PRECIOUS BABY IN SO MUCH PAIN.  THEN HE HAS TO DEAL WITH ALL OF THIS.  HE AMAZES ME MORE EVERY DAY.

NOW I HAVE TO SET THE TABLE FOR 14.  AND VACUUM THE DOG HAIR.  LATER IF I HAVE TIME.

GWENN

Gwenn, ENJOY!

New and Observer article.


http://www.newsobserver.com/105/story/1236329.html

I just don't know that I can listen to his songs the same way.  Even when I listen to them, I think of how he could not be singing them to/about a girl, but to/about a guy and that just makes my stomach churn.

How am I suppose to get past that!  :bang

I need help.  Oh Gwenn  :wave ! Oh Sunny  :wave! I need some more words of wisdom!  :please

 :hugg Beth, I'm not sure I can help you but to me very few of Clay's songs are gender specific and I seldom thought of him singing them to either a man or a woman. I just let his beautiful voice wrap around me and soothe me. I really believe now that that is why he chooses songs that aren't really love songs, they tell about love but not necessarily romantic love. Maybe that's why he refused to sing "Touch" in concert. I think this whole thing is going to take a lot of adjustment for all of us. All I can tell you is baby steps....

Think about who you would sing them to. :wink

As a performer, Clay is just conveying the message in the song. He's not up on stage, spelling out who he wants to do what with.

Love is universal. Practically everyone can identify with phrases like "I love you." When someone sings, you can think about what the song means, how it makes you feel--"yeah, I remember how it was when Special Someone and I first met..." or "that line reminds me of how I feel when my honey looks at me..." That sorta thing.

Thanks  :hugg That helps.  I knew you'd be the right person to ask!  :hugg

BETH--WHEN CLAY IS SINGING A SONG, HE IS PERFORMING THAT SONG.  IT IS A ROLE HE IS PLAYING TRYING TO TELL A STORY.   LET THE SONG WASH OVER YOU.  CLAY TELLS US TO LISTEN TO THE SONG WITH YOUR FILTER, NOT HIS.  WHEN I LISTEN TO ASHES, I THINK OF MY LIFE AND HOW I HAVE RISEN ABOVE MY DISABILITY TO THE POINT THAT NO ONE EVEN KNOWS I HAVE ONE.  Everything I Don't Need REMINDS ME OF MY FIRST HUSBAND.  I SURE DIDN'T NEED THAT NUT.  AND SO ON.  I THINK THE ONLY SONG I WILL DEFINITELY ALWAYS THINK CLAY IS TALKING ABOUT HIMSELF IS Lover All Alone BECAUSE HE WROTE IT.  BUT IT COULD BE ANYONE WHO IS LONELY AND JUST BROKE UP WITH SOMEONE OR NEVER HAD ANYONE SPECIAL IN THEIR LIFE.  CLAY IS A STYLIST.  HE ACTS OUT THE SONG JUST LIKE HE ACTS OUT SIR ROBIN. THIS IS THE GUY THAT THINKS ABOUT WHAT HE IS GONNA HAVE FOR DINNER WHILE SINGING.

IT IS THE VOICE.  IT IS THE EMOTION.  THINK OF CLAY'S VOICE AS A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT.  HE CAN SPEAK FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE TONE DEAF.  HE CAN SPEAK FOR A STRAIGHT MAN WHO CANNOT SPEAK FOR HIMSELF.  DON'T DEPRIVE YOURSELF OF THAT JOY.  THERE ISN'T ANOTHER VOICE OUT THERE LIKE HIS.  ENJOY IT.

GWENN

Thanks!  :hugg  I'm glad to know that I'm not judged for my ignorance  :hugg.
(well at least in front of my face ~ but maybe in a PM.)  :para

Permission was given for me to post this.  It was posted on the OFC.

BETH--ONE THING YOU ARE NOT IS IGNORANT.  OMG. DON'T EVEN THINK IT.

SECOND, THAT IS THE MOST INCREDIBLE POST I HAVE READ THROUGH THIS WHOLE THING.  EVERYONE SHOULD READ IT.  THANKS FOR BRINGING IT HERE.

GWENN

Beth,

I don't think there's anything ignorant about you. And I think it's cool that you're looking for ways to understand something that you don't know a lot about. That's what life is all about. :hugg

The post that I brought over from the OFC reminded me of my morning.  It was horrible, or so I thought.  It was one of those mornings where I just wanted to crawl back into bed and start the morning all over.  When I took Diana to school, the custodian said to me, "hi, how are you?" and I said, "I'm fine!" Was I lieing? Yes! Did she really want to know how I was? No! Is that I lie, too? Well, sort of.  I know it's not the exact same thing, but it's helped me to understand a little more of why I feel that I've been lied to by Clay.  Does this/that make any sense?  :para :shrug

A gal over at the OFC said that her pastor said that religion is like a grocery store.  You go to the store to buy what you need.  You don't buy everything in the store.  Religion is the same way.  I thought that was a great comparison. 

I had a pastor like that. I asked him a lot of questions on "hot-button" issues and said, "Can you be a Christian and believe this? Can you be a Christian and think that?" He answered with something like the grocery store analogy. That was when I decided to be baptized.

I think he was a wise man. Religion can too easily become about beating people over the head with "your" version of what the bible says.

 :yes

OK, don't report me to the Registry of Motor Vehicles, but I'll be d----d if I'll write my REAL weight on my driver's license form.  Who are they kidding.  I don't know any woman who admits, in writing, to her real weight -- to appear on a laminated license that store clerks and others are gonna pull out and read.   (Well, maybe the ladies I know here are heavier, vainer, or less truthful regarding this one matter -- than women elsewhere.)  We're not lying, we all write the ideal weight we're gonna be when we get stopped for speeding, which is hopefully never;  the weight we once were and will be again, of course (even if tomorrow hasn't come yet);  is it our fault if it's time to renew the license, yet again, before the pounds have come off?  Some things are just nobody's business. 

For some, only their hairdressers know for sure.

I realize that these things trivialize important things like sexual orientation, but everyone decides what to share and what to keep private.  Peoples' sex lives especially should be off limits.

 :clap

:lol


:thumb

Great analogies!

Ladies, great posts tonight as usual.  Your comments put many things in the proper perspective.


I just read something at The Ideal Idol that I had not heard -- David Foster was present for Parker's birth.

Boy won't TMZ be upset when they find out that  not only did Clay and Jaymes sneak in unnoticed, but they also missed Parker's famous uncle.   :bigsmile

I guess that's how it is when you spend your time being sleazy--all the good stuff just passes you by. :wink

Yep!!    They are so busy trying to dig up dirt that they can't see what is right in front of them.

Ya gotta love those Broads!


http://lbfca.diaryland.com/gaydar.html

That was so funny.   :roflmao

Just wanted to say for people who haven't had any contact with gay people, that just because a guy is gay doesn't mean he can't appreciate women, or have fun with them, or joke around with them, and even love them (in a non-romantic way).  When Clay danced with Quianna and Angela I believe he was having a good time, not putting on an act to deceive us.   Lance Bass on DWTS doesn't look like it's an ordeal dancing with his female partner.  I asked a woman I knew who was a lesbian how she felt about men.  She said she definitely didn't hate men and enjoyed them as friends.  She just wasn't attracted to them in a physical way.  I only mentioned this because of someone's post on another board feeling deceived by how he was at concerts.  I'm sure not an expert of the gay lifestyle, but as I mentioned on another post, I have two gay cousins and they don't make that aspect of their life the primary issue.  Oh well, enough from me.  Have a good night everyone.

Debbie

Hello all! :wave
I know I don't normally post here, but I've been meaning too, especially the past few days, but one day I wouldn't have time to go online at all, the next I'd fall asleep reading in the OFC and not trust my ability to type and make sense when I desperately needed to get to sleep, even this afternoon, I was all set to post, and had to leave to handle a small flood in my basement, yet again, but now I've fanally found the time to sit down and get out some of my thoughts, a quick warning though, it may be pretty long, so feel free to scroll! :bigsmile
I've been lurking around, reading as much as I could over at the OFC, (mostly to find Clay and Jaymes posts, thank you to everyone who posted the post numbers so I knew where to look! But I've decided, as usual that I like it much better over here!) and catching up here in this thread pretty much everyday since last Tuesday night, and I have to say, I've never felt more proud! Of Clay, of us, of being one of his fans!
Like I said earlier this week in my post over in the "Cover of People" thread, when people would find out what a huge fan I am, and they'd say: "but he's gay isn't he?" (like it was something bad,) and I'd say he wasn't, based on what Clay had said, and also that it wouldn't matter anyway, I'd then get the question, "well, if it comes out that he is gay, do you honestly think his fans will stick around?" And I always said yes, I had and will always have faith in the wonderful person Clay is, and what great people his fans are, and it's been just an amazing feeling to see what I'd known all along, happen: his fans loving and supporting Clay, always. :clap
I love all the positive posts, my heart has just swelled reading them, especially here, and from what I saw, for the most part at the OFC, of course there were a few that have made me want to scream or :puke from the ones "leaving the fandom", but I was a good fangirl and kept my feelings to myself, :wink I can't quite squash the desire to jump to his defense, mainly when someone is just being downright cruel and not just expressing their feelings like they do here, but thankfully they seem to be in the very small minority anyway. :rolleyes
Bev, when I was online and first saw the Clay news, my heart started to race for a second, fearing the end of the Claynation, too, but then I let my faith in all of us take over and felt a calm come over me. :ghug
And my mom! The one who has never understood my love of all things Clay, and is not exactly a fan, has been wonderful!
First of all, after some of the stuff we've been through as fans, I guess I've developed a thick skin and the ability to brace myself for whatever's coming, and I don't feel silly in the sightest for always defending Cly and maintaining that he wasn't gay, because what I was doing was just supporting him, his right to be himself, whatever that may be, and share with us as much or as little as he wanted to, without always being hounded about it, (Beth I think that's why Clay seemed to start taking offense at all the questions, if you're asked something constantly, over and over, you're going to get sick of it real fast! :lol ) so with that all in mind, I turned to my mom and said, "Well, you might as well hear it from me first, Clay is gay." She asked what I meant, how I knew, and then said she wasn't going to say "I told you so", and from there she's just been amazing, she watched him on GMA and discussed his interview with me, (Frankie, I'm a little tired of every interview mentioning Clay's "middle-aged" fans too, I actually said outloud, "Hey, what about me!" during GMA! :lol ) and she smiled when she saw Parker, we debated who'd get to read the People article first, (I did, thanks to Prissy for posting it in the magazine thread!) and took the news extremely well, I think her whole attitude towards Clay has changed! :thud
She was a little concerned with the way he came out, the same time as he first showed Parker to the world, but since Parker is the reasoning behind Clay sharing this part of himself, I fully understand it.
I don't feel lied to at all, first off it was none of my business and didn't matter anyway, and Clay wasn't ready and wasn't sure how people would react, so I understand that too, I was actually surprised that he only told his mom 4 years ago, of course he wouldn't tell the world first!
I wasn't very shocked, my mind was open, especially recently to the possibility, so I had my own, "OK...now what about a tour?" reaction, :wink and just feelings of pride, love and admiration. :heart
Like you said, Wilson, I've cried several times these past few days, but not tears of sadness or disappointment, but of pride and deep love for this man! (Sometimes I even surprise myself with just how deeply I care for him in my heart! :blush )
When I saw Clay's first solo tour and he sang TITN and showed a montage of all that had happened so far, Idol's final, his album release, awards, appearances etc., a rush of emotion came over me and I started crying right where I was standing in the aisle, (ever trying to get closer to the stage! :lol ) and I was so proud and felt so happy to have seen it all happen from the beginning and be a part of it all in any small way that I could, and I feel that same emotion now, with how much has changed and how far we've come in the past five years, seeing Clay holding his son and bravely sharing so much of himself has left me feeling so proud. It's like seeing a member of my own family grow and change, and seeing him sing "Baby mine" hasn't helped with the crying either, that song has always left me a blubbering mess! :cry
Do I feel silly that a guy thought Clay was my boyfriend? Nope! That remains one of the greatest moments of my life! :blush
Clayharmony thank you for sharing your story with all of us, your tale of real love bought tears to my eyes! And reminded me that I should never feel silly just because I'm still in love with a gay man. :hugg
And was it Pamela who said in the last CM that she'd still "do him?" :dunno BWAH! :lmao Oh, and *whispers* me too! :blush :lol
I love Clay more then ever, I'm in love with sweet baby Parker, (poor baby, so tiny to have needed surgery!) and especially after reading Jaymes posts in the OFC, like you Gwenn, :hugg I really like her, have developed a new respect for her, and am glad Clay has her in his life! She came to his defense just like I would have! She's one special lady, even though I am extremely jealous of her! :wink
When I look at Clay's new family, I don't see unconventional, I see what every family should be, two loving parents to their child, and one very lucky baby, he's going to grow up loved, supported and accepted, just as he is. :clap
And I don't think anyone can say Clay doesn't care about his fans, when he and Jaymes should be thinking of nothing more then their baby and the hard work of Spamalot, they've both spent hours reading the fans reaction in the OFC, (I only wish they'd come here!) I've never seen anything like it, fans who care so much about a celebrity and a celebrity who care about his fans just as much! :clap
It breaks my heart that Clay was worried that people would hate him, and about anything bad that was ever said about Jaymes, afterall a dig at her is like one at him, since he chose to have her in his life, I just want nothing more then for them all to be happy, and I'm glad Clay seemed to be just that on GMA, especially when the thought of coming out to millions of people, the world even, seems terrifying to me, I can't get over the bravery and courage that must have took, and at the same time, how freeing that must feel.
It's a shame the People cover was leaked, and pigs like swampthing have taken advantage again, but Clay still did it his way, in his words, when he was ready, the way he wanted to. :clap

Frankie, I was hoping to hear about Raleigh and Durham too! Maybe see them looking around Parker's cradle. :bigsmile :dog

I haven't had a chance to really catch up in the OCD at all, but I heard about Woody's gallbladder surgery and I've been praying for her and I hope she's doing OK.

I wish I'd have been able to see your debut on E! Marilyn! How exciting that must have been! :hugg

mainer, Clay's voice has become an old friend to me as well, and hearing him sing has gotten me through a lot of hard times, like my father's death, :hugg maybe I've been supporting Clay for selfish reasons too, I want him to sing to me and entertain for as long as possible. :clap


Thea, you are such a special lady! :hugg I've agreed with all of your posts here, especially that one. :hugg
That is what I tried to tell a member here, who I used to PM back and forth with, if you think about it, maybe you'll know who I'm referring too, :wink and they would not listen, and kept sending me Bible quotes which I felt was their way of telling me I was wrong when I stood up for gay rights. We don't talk anymore, and that might be a good thing, I visited her MySpace the other day, and every video, every picture of Clay had been removed from her page, he was even deleted along with Claymaniacs from her "friends", I can just imagine the fights that would've taken place if she had said anything bad about Clay to me! :lol Afterall, her page says she's "against" GLBT. :rolleyes
I'm actually really tired of religion coming into this at all, and I can't take seeing the word "sinner" floating around, even if you have a certain set of beliefs, you can't still enjoy Clay's music? I just don't understand. :sigh And I can't believe some people think a person can pray to stop being gay, when gay people are born that way! :bduh
I'm sorry to hear about your poor knee, my ankle will give out from time to time, my leg just buckles and I almost fall, no fun! I hope it's not causing you any pain. :hugg
I also can't stand the People's Court anymore because of that Harvey Levin dude. And if I have to hear him say, "OK" at the beginning of TMZ one more time... :para :lol


:word

Imatheson, if nobody has PM'd you yet, I could hunt down her posts and tell you what Jayme's said. :bigsmile Let me know. :hugg

Gonna be a perfect clay I'm a Christian fan, and I'm not hurt at all. :bduh

Gwenn, I like Clay's glasses, because they look like mine! :blush :bigsmile

Meesa, please don't think you're posts aren't worth much, I love to see your posts. :hugg
"Unconditionally, no matter what." So very well said, and I couldn't agree more. :clap
And I also worry about your working so hard. :hugg
Congratulations on another baby in the family! :bouncy

Glory, if you read this when you get back, I hope you're having a wonderful time with your family, and I hope you can work through any difficult feelings you're having with your beliefs, and always come back to your home here. :hugg
I'm glad you had a good talk with your daughter, I thought it was pretty rude of her to demand you stop being Clay's fan, and I'm happy everything is straightened out now. :clap

Betty, I wondered a few times how I would feel if it turned out Clay was gay, and I also feel the same as I always have! :hugg

Beth, if I were you I wouldn't think about what goes on behind closed doors, truly I don't like to think about that stuff at all, even between a straight couple. :para TMI! :lol
And Clay always said that he's never been in love so when he sings a love song it's not from experience, and you should listen to them by how they pertain to you, so like Sunny said, don't think of Clay singing to a guy, think of what those songs mean to you, in your life. :bigsmile

Nicole/hnl97, I have no doubt in my mind that Clay will be in heaven one day.

And finally I keep thinking how much Lolita has missed, another Spamalot run, no Christmas tour, (still in a funk about that!) Parker's first pictures, (someone has to make sure they have an extra copy of People to send to her!) and now this last rollercoaster ride of a week! I wonder if she knows all that's happened in Clay's life and career? :dunno

~Kelly~ :wave

I've never gone to their site so when I did I loved it - and that's MY video they are showing - whoot!
Shelley

 :clap    :clap     Great post Claygirl -- Thanks

 :bigsmile :blush :bigsmile :blush
 :hugg ~Kelly~

I was raised Catholic, but I attended a church with a very progressive priest (something almost unheard of in my small community). He had that same grocery store mentality when it came to religion. I cried the day he left for another assignment. While there are tons of factors that went into making me who I am today - he was most certainly one of them.

KELLY, thanks so much for that thorough, well-articulated post.  Please, please, please continue to share your thoughts with us here on Critical Mass.  You have so much to "bring to the table", so to speak.

And KELLY, thanks so much for the vote of confidence. :hugg  I often get nervous about posting on topics that are so close to my heart (such as personal issues of faith and morality), although it is getting easier these days.  That's mainly because all of you have been so supportive and loving not just to me but to everybody who posts here. 

Well, off to watch CSI Miami with hubby. If you want to watch a true" diva", then check out David Caruso!!!!  :lol

Thea! :bighug
Thank you! Your post means so much to me! :bouncy
I never would've thought one of my posts could be well articulated! :blush
 :bigsmile I'd love to post here more often! I will anytime I can organize my thoughts enough to, which can be very difficult! :lol
I get nervous posting about things like that too, and after seeing people at the OFC taking things like faith and scripture out of context, it was so refreshing seeing your posts, putting exactly what I was thinking into words, when I couldn't think how to. :bigsmile :clap :clap :clap
~Kelly~

Claygirl -- Kelly -- such a lovely post.  You are so sweet and thoughtful to include everybody, and we appreciate YOU.  I especially love the following quote from your post:

"When I look at Clay's new family, I don't see unconventional, I see what every family should be, two loving parents to their child, and one very lucky baby, he's going to grow up loved, supported and accepted, just as he is. "

Claygirl,

You make so many great points in your post! Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. :hugg

I agree and disagree.  I think that I think too much!  :bduh  I feel sorry for Parker.  When that boy if 15, he's going to have a mother that's 65 and a dad that's gay.  I know that every teenager has it rough, but his teenage years are sure not going to easy.

JUST STOPPING BY TO SAY HI.  I AM COMPLETELY EXHAUSTED.  EVERYONE WENT HOME.  WE ATE.  WE DRANK.  WE PRAYED A LITTLE.  WE ATE SOME MORE.  I CLEANED UP.  I WILL FINISH TOMORROW.  I NEED TO LAY DOWN.

KELLY- I WILL READ YOUR POST TOMORROW.  I AM TOO TIRED TO DIGEST SUCH A LONG AND PENSIVE POST.

EVERYONE HERE----HAPPY NEW YEAR.

GWENN

Ditto!  :thumb

I think every teenage thinks they have it rough. :wink

Besides, if Parker has a close, loving family, he won't see a 65-year-old woman; he'll see "my mom." And his father's sexual orientation won't really have anything to do with him, either. He'll just see "my dad."

L' chaim! :purpbana

I just have to chime in here...sorry. I am an older parent. My teenager did fine. Did you look at the People photos of Jaymes? 50 is the new 39!!!  And I know you maybe more concerned about Clay being gay and it being hard on the son. And it might be...or it might not be. I think he will be raised in a very open and loving home, not the close minded home that Clay was raised in.  I can't wait to see this family fast forward 15 years - what a role model that family is going to be!! JMO

Very true and wise words, Sunny

Sorry, I guess I didn't make myself clear  :bduh.  I meant to say that kids can be extremely cruel and growing up with a gay dad and an older mom, IMO, is gonna be kind of tough.

Oh sorry...well as far as a gay dad...how many gay dads are out there? Probably more than we know but they aren't public figures so it may all work itself out just fine. We have a few years before little Parker is in school.  I think even Clay mentioned he had faith in society in his GMA interview. I do too!.
Night everyone....

For what it is worth, I think most teenagers feel their parents are "old as dirt".  When mine were that age, they thought I couldn't possibly know anything because I was ancient  (early 40s).

It's amazing how smart they think I am now because they are going through the same things with their children.

Happy New Year, Gwenn

Thanks for explaining a little about your religion to us yesterday.  I will have to admit that I did not know the true meaning of Rosh Hashanna and I enjoyed your explanation of the celebration.

Sorry, I guess I'm just used to having a young mom.  When I was 15, my mom was only 37, so to think that Jaymes will be 65 when Parker if 15, just seems shocking to me.  My mom's not even 65 yet.   Okay, sorry.  I'm dropping the subject before I get something thrown at me.  :tomato

Now that everyone is gone- I am just gonna jump in and post some feelings. Some fans are sad because they can no longer have the "fantasy" that we had with CLay, and this was my response:

But you know, to me NONE of it was a fantasy. It was all real- the things he did, the concerts we enjoyed, the interaction with the crowd- that wasn't fantasy it was MEMORIES. Wonderful wonderful memories that no one can take from you. It wasn't a fantasy that he chose to include his fans in both the Christmas stories and the bio's. I recall katy4clay (she won the dinner and carriage ride and spent two wonderful hours with Clay-she said he is everything we thought he was, kind, considerate, etc) posting that Clay said to her "Tell me about YOU" This, coupled with the personal reading of all of those stories, shows that this man truly cares about people and wants to get to know them. The change in the meet and greets last year- from more impersonal to little get togethers of longer duration, the "lines" that Brightstar mentioned- all of this was reality, not fantasy.

I truly think that Clay DOES love women-in his own way. And he treats them the way he wants his family to be treated-with respect. I do not for a minute believe that the teasing and fun with Quiana and Angela was all an act- there was affection-you cannot pretend things like that. And watching some of the video's- I do believe that Clay is also tactile and sensual. The microphone caresses, the rubbing of his hands on his thighs- he does that without conscious thought as second nature. He FEELS some songs-and I don't think any of that will change. I hope with all my heart that he won't feel he has to reign all that in, because its part of him- a part that I for one love. As I love this special man who changed MY life, made ME feel special- and continues to do so for myself and others.

When Jaymes said "The BEst is yet to come" I can tell you- I CANNOT WAIT!!

MARILYN ~   What a beautiful post . . . right from your heart.   :hugg

I treasure the memories thus far and I look to the future with hope and excitement.   :clap

Linds - I almost called you about that special but I figured you were watching it too. Guess I was right!  :lol

Marilyn -  :clap This must be the post you told me about. Love it!

Kelly -  :hugg BTW, I got mail from you and I'll be working on your project.  :smile

I sent Clay a card late last week. It said on the front "How often I think of you and smile...". I found another I liked yesterday so I may send him another, just to let him know how special he is to me. He's brought me some of the greatest friends I'll never forget. We have plenty of good times to come in the future, so I'm looking forward to where our next adventures will be!  :bouncy

Thank you, GWENN .  :hugg

Wishing you and all of our Jewish friends many blessings during this special time of celebration.

Kelly and Marilyn, I loved your posts! 

Meesa, how sweet that you sent Clay a card.  I'll bet he appreciated the thoughts.

Beth, I understand where you're coming from, but I  think Parker will be just fine.....or as fine as any teenager can be.   :bduh

Gwenn, many blessings for you and your family this holiday.

Gwenn- blessings on your holidays!!

Meesa- I will bet Clay loves  your card.

Kelly- I read back and your post is great!

:wave Saw at CV this morning that the Gala auction items are online. That NY trip is mighty tempting, but so are the framed/autographed CDs. :lol

BAF Auction (http://www.bubelaiken.org/GalaAuction/tabid/227/Default.aspx)

So is that Wango Tango green shirt of deliciousness.  :yum

Do it Meesa, just do it :lol

GWENN and all our Jewish friends~~~HAPPY NEW YEAR :hugg

Good morning!
Since we've devoted so much time to discussing Christianity this past week or so, I've decided to take it upon myself to learn a bit more about other faiths, especially Judaism as the New Year is being celebrated today.  Here's a link to an overview of the  holiday GWENN, MARION and our other Jewish friends here on Claymaniacs. 


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/holiday2.html

And SUNNY, l 'chaim  indeed!!!   To life!   :confetti

P.S.  Please read my siggie line and hopefully act upon it.  I am living proof of the importance of routine mammograms.  Because of my getting a digital mammogram, I was diagnosed early enough so that I can be alive today to witness the marriage of my older son and his sweetheart in a little over a month.  And if it is the Lord's will that I stay healthy, maybe I'll be blessed to even hold a grandchild! 

 My heart is very, very full today.

We are so blessed to have all of this wonderful technology available to us.  Please take care of yourselves!   :hugg :hugg :hugg

Oh my, Claydevotee -- wishing you all the best with your treatment.  Our thoughts are with you.  And thank you so much for sharing this personal information here on this thread, to help others here to rise to this challenge.

Hi Mainer,

I was referring to the breast cancer I had two years ago .  I was diagnosed with Stage II breast cancer in September of 2006.  I went through radiation, chemo and now hormonal therapy, but I am fine today because of it!  I guess you weren't around when I was going through this. 

I was so blessed to have the support of so many people here during my fight.  Support of friends is such a crucial part of winning this battle!

Off to physical therapy for my knee.  Does it ever end????  :lol

Hi Beth -- Your concerns certainly have merit.  I'm sure that Clay and Jaymes have also thought about them too. 

I personally think that one of the hardest things for a male teen to have to deal with (from what I've observed in RL) -- after that of having an absent or emotionally destructive father --  is having a highly successful father, especially one who is publicly acclaimed (granted that many families in this situation do just fine).  I think that the biggest challenge for Jaymes and Clay will be to make sure that Parker knows down to his toes that no one has expectations for him, based on his father's fame or success or his parents' gifts, and that he rocks for who he is.

Times are changing.  I know former teens with gay parents.  The sexual orientation of the gay parents was never a problem for them, even when the parents came to terms with their own homosexuality while their kids were still growing up.  (I'm sure there are exceptions to this, and I do know of a local teen who had a problem discovering that her mom who was a closeted lesbian, unfaithful to her husband, and closeted to her own family; the issue however was one of deceit, dishonesty, mistrust -- not orientation.)   I personally know three straight women with gay dads, one straight man with a gay dad, and one straight man with a lesbian mom -- they did just fine as teens with gay parents.

Parker will understand, from a very early age, "where I come from."  A friend has a daughter whose Dad was an anonymous sperm donor.  This amazing child is just wonderful and doing great -- and Parker will have the advantage of being in a two-parent family.

A former friend of ours (we sadly all moved away and lost track of each other, years ago) had a mother who was in her eighties when he was in his teens.  He had the mom his friends all loved and wished they had -- and he missed her, and loved her memory dearly, after she died.  He had been shunted around in foster homes -- she was a distant relative of some kind who took him in as her son.  My guess is that Jaymes will always be young for her age (especially if she is an Aries, Shelley!), and that Clay and Parker will only help to keep her "young at heart" -- and probably young in body as well.

I have been catching up on  this thread and Have decided to share a personal story in the hope that someone who is havaing a hard time with Clay's gayness will process this and it will help them.
 I grew up in a household of extended family. My mother was divorced, and we lived with my grandparents and one aunt and her hubby, and another aunt who came home often for the summer. She was a professor and her focus was the use of rythm with people with disabilities and with children. She was Gay but she was never able to come out. it was the secret all the family knew(except gram and gramps) but nver spoke about . She could not live near her family, she could not share the love she had for her lovers, over the years there were three. One died from Lupus and she had to hide her profound grief for fear someone would suspect. This dear lady who, took me to private summer camps, bought me clothes, and helped my mother financially had for all of her seventy years hide who she was. It makes me sad to this day that she died with that lie.

So when Clay came out I breathed a sigh of relief that he was now free to share his life with all the people he cares about, and is probably now at peace with it himself. I know he will be happier and healthier and so will Parker.

Please know  people are born gay do not choose their sexuality.

MORNING ALL--

I AM STILL TIRED.  DIDN'T SLEEP WELL.  WILL LAY AROUND ALL DAY.  STILL SOME CLEANING UP BUT IT WILL BE DONE LITTLE BY LITTLE.

AS FOR JAYMES'S AGE--THAT WAS MY BIGGEST CONCERN WHEN THE BABY NEWS FIRST BROKE.  STRICTLY FROM THE POV THAT SHE MAY HAVE HEALTH ISSUES AT AN EARLY AGE.  BUT THEN I THOUGHT OF MY MOM.  SHE LOOKED AND ACTED SO MUCH OLDER AT MY AGE THAN I DO.  SHE LOOKED LIKE A MATRON.  HOUSE DRESS, SENSIBLE SHOES, GRAY HAIR.  WELL, I WILL NEVER HAVE GRAY HAIR.  I WILL NEVER WEAR SENSIBLE SHOES IF I CAN HELP IT.  I WILL NEVER DRESS MATRONLY.  MY MOM WAS OLD AT 35 COMPARED TO HOW WE ARE ALL TODAY.  SO, I HAVE HOPES THAT JAYMES WILL CONTINUE TO TAKE GREAT CARE OF HERSELF.  SHE LOOKS GREAT FOR HER AGE AND HAS THE RESOURCES TO MAKE SURE THAT CONTINUES.

AS FOR CLAY-- THIS KID WILL KNOW NOTHING ELSE.  IF HE FEELS THE LOVE THAT CLAY WILL SO DEFINITELY GIVE HIM, HE WILL BE FINE.  I AM REMINDED OF HOW I TOLD ER ABOUT MY BROTHER.  THEY HAD ALWAYS BEEN CLOSE AT THAT POINT.  SHE WAS 7.  SHE JUST DIDN'T SEE IT AS AN ISSUE.  AS A MATTER OF FACT, SHE RECENTLY ASKED WHY THEY DIDN'T JUST GET MARRIED.  THEY DO WEAR WEDDING BANDS.  GRANTED HE ISN'T HER FATHER, BUT HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN IMPORTANT PART OF HER LIFE AND DID PAY FOR HER COLLEGE.  IF IT IS NOT MADE INTO A BIG DEAL, THEN IT JUST WON'T BE.  ALL OF HER FRIENDS KNOW MY BROTHER AND THE GAY PART IS NEVER THE ISSUE.  THE SNOB PART, YES.  (HE IS A GOOD GUY BUT A BIT OF A SNOB.  MONEY CAN DO THAT. )

I HAVE GREAT HOPES THAT PARKER WILL BE FINE.  IT COULD BE EASIER FOR HIM IF CLAY RAISED HIM IN NYC INSTEAD OF RALEIGH, BUT WHO KNOWS.  5 YEARS IS A LONG TIME.  ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN. 

GWENN

Thanks everyone.  I'm so grateful for all of your opinions.  I'm just trying to talk about everything that I can think of, so that I can be more informed of everything. 

Which brings me to my next question!  :rolleyes   :lol (just kidding!  :wink)

I HAVE AN O/T QUESTION---

DOES ANYONE HAVE A LINK TO THE TOUR OF CLAY'S HOUSE DONE BY LYNDA LOVELAND? 

THANKS.

GWENN

GWENN, you ask a lot of tough questions!!!  :scratch  :hypno   Are you sure you're not reporter in disguise???  :lol

As to the link, let me see if I can find it via Googling.  At least I'll try.  I'm limited, after all!!!

I found some U-Tubes of the Linda Loveland House tour.  It is in 2 parts.  Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyC3Q_GdKHo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TSMFS0P59U

I remember what I wanted to ask ~ I'm still learning, so please bear with me...

Why is it that gay/lesbian people feel the need to "come out"? I guess I just simply do not understand.  People who are heterosexual don't feel the need to make it public knowledge that they are heterosexual.  Can someone please help me to understand this? Thanks!  :hugg  Sorry for being so inquisitive.  I guess it's all just part of the learning process.

I think I can answer that with reference to Clay. Its the media and part of society. They should NEVER feel the need to "Come out" but with the heckling and persecution from the tabloids, etc to MAKE them come out, people who are celebrities are almost FORCED to do so. They are not afforded an iota of privacy as they should be.

With respect to private lives, and this is just my opinion, homosexuality is still frowned upon by many- look at the conflict from just Clay's fans.  If a gay person were to "bring home" or be familiar with someone of their own sex, many people would be horrified and shun them. I believe this is why it is hidden from family and friends

Unfortunately, Clay is well known and the arena for bigotry is much larger. It took great courage for him to do what he did, especially with his Christian upbringing. Its too bad that the sexuality is an issue, because to me- ain't nobodys bizness but the people involved.

I am a firm believer of what people do in the privacy of their own home should not be known by the general public (unless it is abuse or neglect)

I could NEVER understand why Matthew McConaughy was arrested for playing the bongo's nude IN HIS OWN HOME!! Unless I am missing part of the story, that should have been private also. Do you think someone with binoculars discovered him and called the cops?? :lol

BETH, I'll try to take a crack at answering this one.  In most societies it is the basic assumption that everybody is heterosexual, so there is no need usually to make a statement about it.  On the other hand, homosexuality is not considered to be the "norm" in today's society (although in certain segments of society it is more widely accepted than in others).  Can you imagine having to keep a secret like that to yourself?  Can you imagine having to keep the strong feelings you have for another tucked away inside, only to be discussed among a few people who "understand"???   Picture family gatherings, business parties and get-togethers, etc. having to pretend you are somebody you are not.  For example,  I think it would be beyond painful to get endless questions from relatives about "when are you going to find a nice guy (girl) to settle down with, get married and raise a family", especially when they are referring to a heterosexual relationship. 

 I personally believe that "coming out" liberates a person.  It allows the whole world to see "The Real Me", so to speak.  Living a lie is not ever easy.  Have you ever  been asked to share any secret for a long period of time?  Believe me, it can be very, very painful....but you do what you have to do.

And  BETH,  IMO "being inquisitive" is something to be proud of, not embarassed by.

I just think that it is probably a whole lot easier to not have to hide what one really is (homosexual). 

People who are heterosexual don't feel the need to "tell" people they are because it's considered the norm; it's accepted. It has a lot to do with why gay people often conceal the fact that they're gay in the first place--it's not considered "normal." Gay people have heard the jokes (maybe even from some friends and family), seen news stories about anti-gay protests or bashings (or worse), read articles about lawmakers in Washington, DC trying to legislate whether what they do in private with someone they love is "okay" or "evil."

They "come out" for various reasons, of course, depending on the person. But often, it's so they don't have to hide a basic, fundamental part of themselves anymore. So they don't have to deny who they are and who they care about. So, like Stargazer's aunt, they can reach over and hold the hand of the person they love, share their joy in that love with their friends, family, and others who are important to them, and if need be, mourn and grieve the loss of that person if something tragic happens. They come out so they can live fully.

SUNNY, I think you and I basically on the same page with this one.  :wink

:yeahthat  :wink

THEA--THANKS.  MY BEST FRIEND SAW THE PEOPLE ARTICLE AND WAS IMPRESSED WITH WHAT SHE SAW OF THE HOUSE AND WANTED TO SEE MORE.

BETH--I THINK IT IS THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF FOLKS ARE STRAIGHT SO THERE IS NO NEED TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.  BUT IN THE CASE OF GAY/LESBIAN FOLKS, IT IS AN IDENTITY ISSUE.  "DON'T MAKE FUN OF ME ANYMORE" KIND OF THING.  I THINK CLAY WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECTLY FINE IN NOT COMING OUT IF THE MEDIA HAD LET HIM ALONE ABOUT IT.  HE KEPT HIS PRIVATE LIFE PRIVATE.  BUT HE WAS HOUNDED ALL THE TIME AND I THINK HE FELT IT WAS JUST TIME---FOR PARKER'S SAKE---TO JUST SAY IT AND BE DONE WITH IT.  FOR OTHER GAY AND LESBIAN FOLKS, I THINK THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO BE "FIXED UP" WITH DATES.  DON'T WANT THEIR FAMILIES TO CONSTANTLY QUESTION WHY THEY AREN'T DATING.  WANT TO HAVE PEOPLE NOT ASK WHY THEY ARE LIVING WITH SOMEONE OF THE SAME SEX AND BUYING PROPERTY WITH SOMEONE OF THE SAME SEX.  WHY THEY CHOOSE TO DRESS A CERTAIN WAY.  THEY JUST WANT TO BE COMFORTABLE IN THEIR OWN SKIN BEING WITH PEOPLE THEY LOVE.  IMAGINE IF YOU WERE EXPECTED TO MARRY A WOMAN AND LIVE IN A SEXUAL WAY WITH THAT WOMAN.  IT IS JUST TOO WEIRD TO IMAGINE.  FOR THEM, IT IS THE SAME WEIRDNESS.  TO AVOID THE DISCOMFORT, MY BROTHER HAS CHOSEN GAY DOCTORS, A GAY DENTIST, A GAY LAWYER, A GAY ACCOUNTANT, A GAY HOUSECLEANER, ETC.

GWENN

Thanks Marilyn  :hugg, Thea  :hugg, Pam  :hugg, and Gwenn  :hugg.  You ladies sure seem to be a fountain of knowledge.  When I grow up, I want to be just like you  :wink :lol 

O/T:

Beth, honey, I think you're well on your way!   :hugg

BETH, awwww.  Thank you.   :hugg


 Hmmmmm    :music "Bongos in the Nude".  :music   It could be set to the melody of "Strangers in the Night".  I smell a megahit!!!!   (OK, I'm out of here!   :lol)

Betcha Marilyn could do it. :bigsmile  Write the lyrics, I mean. Not actually... well, never mind. :blush

Beth,

 :hugg

GUFFAW!!!!   :lmao :lmao :lmao

BETH--YOU ARE A VERY SPECIAL LADY.   :hugg  WANTING TO LEARN IS A GOOD THING.

I WONDER IF FOLKS WHO ARE STRUGGLING SHOULD MAYBE WATCH "BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN."  IT'S AN IDEA.  IT IS KIND OF TOUGH TO SEE, BUT IT SURE ANSWERS A WHOLE LOT.

GWENN

Those who are struggling, here's a wonderful blog.  Perhaps it will help.


http://ahmjustsayin.diaryland.com/yeshesgay.html

I just picked up my copy of People.  Did anyone else notice the pictures of Papa and Granny on the mantle?  Awwww! 

JUST SAW THIS AT THE CH.  I THINK IT IS INTERESTING ON MANY LEVELS.  FROM A GAY SITE OR POSSIBLY BLOG:


GWENN

Thanks Beth- the way it was filtered down just mentioned him playing the bongo's- now I see why he was arrested.

I can't play bongo's  :bigsmile

Well, that settles that, MARILYN!!!   :lol

MICKI, you didn't by any chance buy your copy at Walmart???  I looked for one while shopping at our local Walmart last night and that particular issue wasn't on the stands.  Have they by any chance banned it from being sold there????  :para

On a lighter note- Thea, you unleashed the monster
(Keep in mind this was done in a couple of minutes between projects)

Bongo's in the night
attract attention
Something's just not right-
against convention
Clothing way too tight
for bongo's in the niiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Clothing is dispersed
allowing freedom
Music is rehearsed
its not a tom tom
Cops don't think it's right
my bongo's in the niiiiiiiiiiight

Okay I will slink away and be a little more productive

BYE!!

Marilyn  :clap  :laugh  :hugg

 :lmao :lmao :lmao  YES, I have released the "smutty muse" in you, MARILYN!!!  Bravo!!!  :notworthy

Thea, I got mine at CVS.  I think Target has it also.

Thank you so much, Micki!  :hugg  It made me  :lol and  :cry.  Oh, and  :puke, after I read this:
  :lmao

I guess in a way, Clay has made me take a good look in the mirror.  Because I'm now on a journey of self-identifying who I want to be, too! (A better person who is more accepting of/to people who are different than me!) Who knew!

I don't think Walmart has banned it. I bought my copy of People at Walmart. 

Marilyn -- my laugh of the day!

Claydevotee -- glad that all is behind you.  I was around two years ago (or was I, I've sort of faded in and out depending on RL), and then again I can't keep people's thread names straight, I'm afraid.  (Heck, I can't keep people's given names straight when we're face to face).  Still, thanks again for the reminder -- so important.

Re "coming out," I think that because there is a process in this culture of using homosexual inuendo to disrespect people (as in late night humor), people want to assume that others are straight until or unless a person specifically lets people know that he/she is not.  Many gays still have to remain closeted to protect their careers, keep their apartments, and etc.

I had a post earlier but I think I scrapped it and didn't post it.  Ignore this if it is old.  We have two friends who are retired gay college teachers.  One was advised by friends, including faculty colleagues, not to come out openly or he would lose his job (Catholic college).  The other friend, and his husband!, had their wedding photo published in one of their university's publications, in an article extolling diversity at the university.

Clay and Jaymes are activists for diversity, just by their openness and their example.  Bravo!

 

Beth, don't take this the wrong way, but... I think I love you! :wink

'Told ya! :lol :clap

OKAY THIS JUST SCREAMS TO BE MADE INTO A MONTAGE - I'm ON IT!!!
Shelley

Yep! When I was in the car waiting to pick Nathan up from school, it made me think of that word that Clay likes to use INCLUSION.  That's Clay! Always the teacher!

Beth, you sound like you're in a better place.  I'm happy for you!

I hope that other fans who are struggling will, in time, come to realize Clay and others like him have no choice in their orientation.  As Gwenn would say, "it is what it is".  It doesn't change the man, "not any at all" (TM CA).  He's still our Clay.....the one we all fell in love with 5 years ago.  He still loves women......just not in a romantic way.  I still think he'll clown around with Quiana and Angela on tour.  He can't help himself....he's a born flirt.

I'm trying, Micki, I'm trying.  I have to admit, talking with everyone has really helped a lot  :hugg. 

You're an editing madwoman! :lol

         Thea,
                They had quite a few People mags. at our Walmart, they are selling quite quickly.
             I have tears in my eyes when I watch Clay"s tenderness with Parker and the happiness
             on his face.  How could anyone deny him this????
                    He is still the same caring, loving person we have always known.


How are the wedding plans developing??

                                              Hugs,       Betty

A gal's gotta do, what a gal's gotta do!

PS  I have two more montages finished:

True Colors - pix of Clay and a little Parker thrown in for fun
     http://www.sendspace.com/file/gl8iuk

On the Wings of Love - total love fest for little Parker
     http://www.sendspace.com/file/jlmp5k

BETH-- :hugg

MARILYN--YOU ARE TOO MUCH.   :lmao

SHELLEY--HOW DO YOU HAVE THE TIME??????? :bduh :bduh :bduh

CAN I SAY HOW MUCH I AM LOVING THIS THREAD LATELY?

GWENN

Here's something interesting re: People Magazine and Clay's coming out.


http://www.jossip.com/the-real-story-behind-clay-aikens-coming-out-20080930/#more-34355

Gwenn!!! Happy holidays! I hope you aren't too exhausted from last night! Basically, re: the montages: I don't sleep! After a week of reading at OFC and elsewhere, I decided to put on On My Way Here and do a montage and just stop reading the threads for a while. i highly recommend it. Listening to the glorious voice again put me in a happy place...

I JUST SAW THAT, MICKI.  YEAH, THERE WAS NO BIDDING WAR.  THAT WHOLE THING IS A NONISSUE TO ME ANYWAY.  WHO CARES?  PERSONALLY, I WOULD LOVE FOR CLAY TO HAVE GOTTEN THAT MONEY AND PUT IT IN A COLLEGE FUND FOR PARKER.  I HAVE NEVER BEEN INTERESTED IN HIS MONEY.  I AM QUITE SURE HE HAS PLENTY.  HE DOESN'T SQUANDER IT.  IT IS ANOTHER THING THAT IS HIS LIFE.  WHAT I AM GLAD ABOUT IS THAT HE HAS A GREAT PR FIRM BEHIND HIM.

I, TOO, AM GONNA STAY AWAY FROM THE OFC.  IT IS SUCH A TOXIC PLACE.  MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT USUAL POSTERS THERE HAVE SAID THEIR PIECE AND LEFT.  I STILL FEEL BAD FOR THOSE STRUGGLING AND, IF I COULD HELP I WOULD.  BUT I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY MORE TO SAY.  ALL OF THE FACTS ARE RIGHT OUT THERE ON THE TABLE.  IT IS A MATTER OF FEELING RIGHT NOW.  I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER IS THAT WE ARE ALL A FAMILY IN THE CLAYNATION.  HERE TO LOVE AND SUPPORT CLAY BUT ALSO HERE FOR EACH OTHER.

SHELLEY--I AM EXHAUSTED.  THANK GOD I HAVE TONS OF LEFTOVERS SO I DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING BUT NUKE FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS.

GWENN

If I wasn't in California, I would drop in to help you eat those leftovers!

I was looking at something which put me on aol.com, where they have listed their top stories in a column down the left.  Clay's decision to come out was story number 4.  People are paying attention.  Clay continues to make a difference.

SHELLEY, make sure I get some credit for coming up with the idea. I reawakened the "Smutty Muse" in Marilyn that inspired her to compose these (cough-cough) award-winning lyrics.   I guess that would make me "The Creative Consultant"?????  I'd love to have my own 15 minutes of fame!!!  :lol

MICHELLE, MICKI, BETTY & ??

Thanks for the response on Walmart sales of THE People Magazine with Clay.  I just don't understand how they all could have disappeared from the stands near the register....  :hypno

BETTY As to the wedding, well if I would start planning more and posting less, I guess I would report to you that the wedding plans are coming along right on schedule.  But......   :para

 :wave It made me smile even bigger!  :bigsmile

'Ever try to buy a Clay CD there within a few days after it drops?

Ladies, I have always been happy that I found this site five years ago but I really think you outdid yourselves today.

It is a real shame that the whole block of posts made during the day today couldn't just be picked up and dropped in the middle of several other boards.

I have never seen a discussion of both sides of a very touchy topic that was so rational, caring of both sides and not an angry war of words.

You ladies gave us all something to think about regardless of where we stand. 

Thank you    :clap       :clap       :clap        :clap

I GOT THIS EMAIL FROM A FRIEND.  I THINK WE CAN ALL RELATE.  I LAUGHED OUT LOUD.


JUST CHANGE THE NAME.

GWENN

Your Montages are truly beautiful. so much love there. No doubt about it you are very, very talented.


                                         Betty

Gwenn  :laugh

Gwenn - That story is hilarious! :lol

Gwenn, loved that story!   :lmao :lmao

omigosh Gwenn -- that story so totally cracks me up!  I try to explain to people that so much of the fun of being a Clay fan is the other fans.  I'll copy that story and send it along to some worthy recipients!

Gwenn, great story -- and I can relate

SPECTACULAR STORY

  :lol :lol

Thank you Betty!  :blush I do them with joy...I'd never heard of them or seen a youtube video until this summer. Now I am totally hooked!!

The thread at the OFC had actually started to settle down, and was heading toward "positive" and even "pleasant."

It's gone back to judgmental and hostile. :bang

I can't even stand to lurk when there's so much malice being spat out from all directions. I'm afraid of getting caught in the crossfire. :para

   
     Someone  suggested it would be nice if anyone wanted to send a card of support
   
      to Clay. I sent one today.

                          The address is:         Clay Aiken
                                                            Shubert Theater
                                                             225, W 44th St.
                                                              New York
                                                                 NY 10036
                                                                                       Betty                            :wave
 

I love how things come full circle.! The someone would be me!!!! :lol
Please send him cards. I sent one that said: Some jobs are hard to come by, but not when they're perfect for you.

I also sent one to the entire cast and crew telling them we (fans) appreciate them and their support of Clay.

I say flood the Shubert for the next 4 months with the love!!!
Shelley
[/quote]

GWENN, loved the story!  Paul Newman was a class act with a homestyle sense of humor.  I could easily see Clay doing the same thing!   :lol

Just 'wondering, SUNNY.  Is it the same couple of people stirring up the trouble or are more new troublemakers coming out of the woodwork????

I'm watching DWTS.  Jessica Simpson is singing her new "hits".  Yikes, that woman has such a skinny, shrill little voice!  This is a very painful performance.   :headache  I sure wish Clay could appear on DWTS someday.  Actually I think there is more hope now than ever before.  Life is very strange, indeed

A little of both. But it seems to be the same argument over and over. "God hates this," and "God says that."

I wish people wouldn't hang their shortcomings on God.



That's because she's not a singer. She's a bleached blonde with an oversized set of boobs.

I know. I should learn to express myself more clearly. :wink

     



I heard you loud and clear, SUNNY!  Except I'd like to add that "she's a bleached blond with an oversized set of boobs" and an overinflated ego to match!  That girl has sure gotten a lot of breaks in her career.  :bang 
 
 

Um... I gotta say I don't know that this is such a great idea. :para

Yes, it comes from the heart and is meant with the truest of good intentions. But, I don't think it's going to come across as a ringing endorsement of Clay's professionalism. The company hired him. Not us. His fans should not come along with him, part and parcel, at every gig he does. We are not an extension of him.

If you want to support him, buy a CD. Buy a ticket to Spamalot. Write a check to the BAF, or to UNICEF in his honor.

I think it trivializes others' relationship with him if we feel a need to "thank them" for supporting him. It's not our place to get involved here, and I think it will embarrass not only Clay, but the recipients of the thank-you notes.

I must agree with you SUNNY.  Personally I'm not comfortable with sending fan mail.  But of course this is much better than filling his dressing room with floral and balloon bouquets along with teddy bears and other things.  JMHO.

What????  We're not??? Somebody better tell some of those people at the OFC!!!!!!  :lmao

True, but it's still something that will draw attention to him from the rest of the company. And yeesh! If the fans' cheering on his opening night back last winter embarrassed him, think how this might make him feel.

'Seems to me he doesn't want to be "lifted up" or singled out; he just wants to be one of the group.

 :lol :lol  They wouldn't believe you, so why bother!   They are one "delusional" bunch.  :bduh

   :lol :lol

Got it....the letter was actually a heartfelt thank you for the cast supporting the fans...I guess I didn't make it clear. My understand from people who have gone to both runs of the show that the ticket takers, box office and others on the crew and even some cast have gone out of their way to thank the fans for being there. I posted the letter up thread - who the hell knows how far up a few days ago - it really isn't a letter saying thank god you're there for Clay - doesn't say that at all. Sorry I wasn't clear earlier. I thanked them for putting on an awesome show and with all the attention on Clay's return, just thanked them for doing what they do best - entertain. (backs out slowly...)
Shell

Shelley,

I'm sure they were surprised and pleased to get your note. :hugg

This is only my opinion, and I can only speak for me. I just don't think bombarding people we don't know in the cast and crew with cards from Clayfans for the length of his run in the show would be a prudent step to take. I don't think it would add to Clay's professional image. And I do think it would continue to make his fans look like they're trying to "mother" him.

Agree on reflection I think you're right about that....the bombarding part.  :lol

I need to clarify one more thing:

I've never used the word prudent before in my life! I feel like such a dork. :doh :lol

 :lmao

I admit when I read your post I had to look to see who was responding to me cuz it's sure didn't sound like you!

Just wanted to ask here since most of the people attending the gala nad/or who live in the Raleigh area from the board post or lurk here. Would anyone be interested in getting together Sunday? Last March in my first trip to Raleigh Pamela arranged a get together when Marilyn, Ang, Susy and I were in town and it was a lot of fun. Marilyn and I would love to meet for dinner or something Sunday if possible. Please let me know if you are interested! Clayobsessed has told me she'd be interested.

My reaction....

Well, all I've got to say is that I'm shocked, heart broken, devastated and dismayed.  I feel cheated and lied to.  I was always so supportive...spending my hard earned dollars.  And, yes, I know that at times I may have seemed obsessed and I may have used it as a drug and admit to being addicted....but, I now see that it was all a well planned conspiracy to lure me into an addictive "high" that was a thousand times better than sex.  Trap em and keep em wanting more, more more and then pull the old switch-a-roo on em.

This revelation is such a travesty.  I'm not sure how long they thought they could keep this a secret, but I'm relieved it's finally out in the open even though it's shameful and I'm pretty sure somebody's going to hell, because you just can't make a choice like that and expect all your followers to think it's a fantastic decision.

This news has made me realize that my life, as I've come to love and appreciate it, will never, ever be the same.   :cry  I'm at a loss as for what to do.  I truly believe I've got to abandon ship.  I will  miss the way it made me feel and the effects it had on my senses...I cannot and will NEVER accept this change and I'm beyond furious.  I can not for the life of me understand why......Hershey's took the cocoa butter out of the chocolate! 

God help me....I never, ever thought I'd stray this far or say anything like this....move over Hershey's and look out Nestles' cause Here I come. 

It taste's like CRAP!

This post brought to you by a premenstral, peri-menopausal women!

Who knew? :lol